Let's Talk Oil! Liqui Moly- Good Oil For Penta D1-20?

[The Real Flipper]

Please get the handbook for the engine. The recommended oil is 15W40 mineral oil to minimum API CF (that will be on the back of the can). It is a very basic oil as these engines are simple low stressed industrial engines. Oil and filter needs changing every 150 hours or annually, which are often much the same. You will never wear the engine out - the need for annual oil change is because the engine spends most of its life doing nothing interspersed with short runs at light loads - the very opposite of what it was designed for. Despite that if you follow the basics the engine will last 30 or 40 years! You will often find this grade of oil sold as suitable for older diesel cars and is relatively cheap.

However, personally I only used Volvo branded oil (and filter) in my D1 30 because I bought the boat new (lots of noughts on the end!) and the difference in cost each year between "cheap" oils and pattern filters is less than £30. Very comforting for the buyer when I sold it after 6 years to have a complete history of service using Volvo parts. On the other hand my previous Volvo 2030 which I had in a commercial charter boat used cheaper oil and filters because it ran typically 4-500 hours a year and we changed the oil every 200 hours or so. Had 3500 hours on it when I sold it and ran perfectly.

Turns out my local shop also has the recommended Volvo oil, and for cheaper than anywhere I found on the internet. Quite a shocker really. I would expect a local marina shop to be totally overpriced. Cough, like my last marina shop. It's 42 Euros which isn't terrible. But then he tells me the Yanmar official oil is better. He also prefers Yanmar engines and says they're longer lasting than Volvos. Anyway, he is very much opposed to synthetic oils. Not sure why. I'll have to ask him when I stop by.

One thing I just remembered was a recent video (I think it was lady k sailing on youtube did a winterize video) and they put a little bottle of some stuff in the oil to keep some kind of funky algae stuff from growing in the oil. Apparently (at least they argue) this is becoming a problem in boat engines due to more and more bio fuels being used.

So, based on what the manual says what oils might you use in a D1-20?

View attachment 140432

Yeah I found that one once or twice. I think I recall my eyes glazing over LOL.
I scrolled on for a quick brand-make-and-model summary that I never found

 

[Tranona]

You get Volvo fans and Yanmar fans just as you get Ford fans and VW fans - just ignore them! Volvo and Yanmar share the new boat market in this hp range (in Europe) roughly 50/50. In the aftermarket replacement sector Kubota based engines dominate, but it is very national and Mitsubishi engines (Vetus) are common in the Netherlands. The point is they are commodities and 50 years of development and competition means that technically and functionally there is little difference.

Synthetic and advanced oils are totally unnecessary in these simple little engines. To put things into perspective, my Ford has a 3 cylinder 999cc turbo petrol engine that produces 128hp at 7000rpm. My Beta 30 has a capacity of 1123cc and produces 29hp at 3600 rpm. Synthetic oils are made for the former and the additives do nothing for the latter. The main purpose of the oil in your engine is to hold the harmful unburnt combustion products and protect the moving parts (bearings pistons etc for the 999% of the time that the engine is not actually running.

 

[vyv_cox]

You get Volvo fans and Yanmar fans just as you get Ford fans and VW fans - just ignore them! Volvo and Yanmar share the new boat market in this hp range (in Europe) roughly 50/50. In the aftermarket replacement sector Kubota based engines dominate, but it is very national and Mitsubishi engines (Vetus) are common in the Netherlands. The point is they are commodities and 50 years of development and competition means that technically and functionally there is little difference.

Synthetic and advanced oils are totally unnecessary in these simple little engines. To put things into perspective, my Ford has a 3 cylinder 999cc turbo petrol engine that produces 128hp at 7000rpm. My Beta 30 has a capacity of 1123cc and produces 29hp at 3600 rpm. Synthetic oils are made for the former and the additives do nothing for the latter. The main purpose of the oil in your engine is to hold the harmful unburnt combustion products and protect the moving parts (bearings pistons etc for the 999% of the time that the engine is not actually running.

I believe there is a difference between the two. Volvo produce a huge variety of marine engines, including large turbo-charged ones for superyachts down to single cylinder ones for yachts. Despite this they proscribe a 'one size fits all' oil policy, API CH-4 last time I checked. This has quite a high base number, fine for a big hot engine, not so good for a small cool one.
Yanmar's oil was to API CI-4 last time I looked, a better choice IMHO for a smaller engine.

 

[VicS]

I believe there is a difference between the two. Volvo produce a huge variety of marine engines, including large turbo-charged ones for superyachts down to single cylinder ones for yachts. Despite this they proscribe a 'one size fits all' oil policy, API CH-4 last time I checked. This has quite a high base number, fine for a big hot engine, not so good for a small cool one.
Yanmar's oil was to API CI-4 last time I looked, a better choice IMHO for a smaller engine.

VP oil now VDS-3, API CI-4, ACEA E5

 

[vyv_cox]

VP oil now VDS-3, API CI-4, ACEA E5

That's good news. Everybody seems to agree this is the grade to use.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I use mineral diesel engine oil 15w40 from local car factor - Comma brand from memory. Never had any problem in my Beta 25hp.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I use mineral diesel engine oil 15w40 from local car factor - Comma brand from memory. Never had any problem in my Beta 25hp.

I'm sure that's fine. However, genuine Beta stuff is not over priced. I found Comma 15W40 for sale at £27.95 for 5 litres. Beta branded oil is £21.92 for the same amount.

Comma X-Flow Type MF 15w-40 Mineral Car Engine Oil
Oils & Lubricants - splash-marine.com

It's the same with their antifreeze. There are sometimes questions here on what to use for Beta engines, with suggestions from alternative suppliers that meet the required specification, only for them to be more than the Beta branded stuff. Beta brand filters, while more than generic ones, are not the silly prices of Volvo and Yanmar. It's not stupidly expensive to use Beta branded stuff for all parts and fluids. It's a pity more boat builders don't install them from new. It's the standard fit for my forthcoming new boat, but that's unusual.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Turns out my local shop also has the recommended Volvo oil, and for cheaper than anywhere I found on the internet. Quite a shocker really. I would expect a local marina shop to be totally overpriced. Cough, like my last marina shop. It's 42 Euros which isn't terrible. But then he tells me the Yanmar official oil is better. He also prefers Yanmar engines and says they're longer lasting than Volvos. Anyway, he is very much opposed to synthetic oils. Not sure why. I'll have to ask him when I stop by.

One thing I just remembered was a recent video (I think it was lady k sailing on youtube did a winterize video) and they put a little bottle of some stuff in the oil to keep some kind of funky algae stuff from growing in the oil. Apparently (at least they argue) this is becoming a problem in boat engines due to more and more bio fuels being used.



Yeah I found that one once or twice. I think I recall my eyes glazing over LOL.
I scrolled on for a quick brand-make-and-model summary that I never found

The trick is to take a photo of the specs on your phone, then go to the oil shop and compare the alphabet soup on the spot.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I use mineral diesel engine oil 15w40 from local car factor - Comma brand from memory. Never had any problem in my Beta 25hp.

I'm sure that's fine. However, genuine Beta stuff is not over priced. I found Comma 15W40 for sale at £27.95 for 5 litres. Beta branded oil is £21.92 for the same amount.

Comma X-Flow Type MF 15w-40 Mineral Car Engine Oil
Oils & Lubricants - splash-marine.com

.

I recently found an almost-full 5l container of 15w-40 oil in my shed. I had formed the intention of adding it to my store of engine consumables on my Volvo-engined boat, but this discussion made me look at its specs, and it now appears that it's a left-over from my previous boat, which had a Beta. Good thing I checked, as its lower specced than the oil for the Volvo.

 

[rotrax]

Last time I used Halfords diesel oil which seems ok and has remained quite clean for a long time. I only do very low hours though and my Kubota engine is reputedly indestructable

Our Yanmar 4JH4-HTE Turbo Diesel is on Halfords oil.

I check the level before every passage. It was changed last November and has done 89 hours. It is still bright on the dipstick. It will be close to 120 hours by the time we get back to Littlehampton.

As long as it is of the manufacturers specification for oil you wont go far wrong.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Use Synthetic oil of the correct viscosity as per manual. Synthetic Oils are far superior to mineral oils.

 

[vyv_cox]

As long as it is of the manufacturers specification for oil you wont go far wrong.

That's all very well but the specification for many older engines is API CD or something similar that has been obsolete for years and is now unobtainable other than from small volume blenders.

In those cases we need to find an alternative that has similar chemistry but preferably with modern additives that will benefit the engine. API CI-4 seems to fit the bill.

 

[Tranona]

Use Synthetic oil of the correct viscosity as per manual. Synthetic Oils are far superior to mineral oils.

But completely unnecessary on small marine diesels. Beta(Kubota) specifically state NOT to use synthetics. See post#22. modern oils are designed for modern high speed high stressed high output engines - the very opposite of a small marine diesel. So why use an inappropriate oil?

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Use Synthetic oil of the correct viscosity as per manual. Synthetic Oils are far superior to mineral oils.

Haven't you read the thread from the start?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

But completely unnecessary on small marine diesels. Beta(Kubota) specifically state NOT to use synthetics. See post#22. modern oils are designed for modern high speed high stressed high output engines - the very opposite of a small marine diesel. So why use an inappropriate oil?

Synthetic oils provide much better lubrication by design, (physical and chemical composition); the additives in the oil may be the same in both mineral and synthetic. Synthetic oils are very suitable to the marine environment as they are resistant to oxidation and chemical degradation

 

[Tranona]

Synthetic oils provide much better lubrication by design, (physical and chemical composition); the additives in the oil may be the same in both mineral and synthetic. Synthetic oils are very suitable to the marine environment as they are resistant to oxidation and chemical degradation

Then why do major manufacturers not insist or even recommend them for their engines?

I use synthetic oils for my cars because that is what the makers recommend - and because one engine has a specific power output of 75hp/L and revs to 6500rpm, the other (more modern) has a specific output of 123hp/L and revs to 7500rpm. Om the other hand my Beta 30 has a specific output of 26hp/l and revs to 3600rpm.

Unsurprisingly the oil requirements for the 2 types of engines are completely different, so why waste your money on an an oil that provides no additional benefit for your engine?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Then why do major manufacturers not insist or even recommend them for their engines?

I use synthetic oils for my cars because that is what the makers recommend - and because one engine has a specific power output of 75hp/L and revs to 6500rpm, the other (more modern) has a specific output of 123hp/L and revs to 7500rpm. Om the other hand my Beta 30 has a specific output of 26hp/l and revs to 3600rpm.

Unsurprisingly the oil requirements for the 2 types of engines are completely different, so why waste your money on an an oil that provides no additional benefit for your engine?

The price for synthetic and mineral oils is practically the same and the benefits of synthetic oils are numerous; manufacturers are slow to react and it is human nature to hesitate when comes to change; in the main, decisions are made by a single individual whether to make change in the use of something.

 

[vyv_cox]

The price for synthetic and mineral oils is practically the same and the benefits of synthetic oils are numerous; manufacturers are slow to react and it is human nature to hesitate when comes to change; in the main, decisions are made by a single individual whether to make change in the use of something.

Not sure who is providing full synthetic oil for the same price as mineral but I would be very pleased to hear who they are. Not for my boat because, as Tranona says, its performance benefits, mostly resistance to oxidation at high operating temperatures, are totally unnecessary in a yacht.

Semi-synthetic oil is a mineral oil with comparable properties to synthetics. Also not needed in a yacht.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Yeah for some reason my local marina shop tech who basically lives marine diesel engines insists not to use synthetic or synthetic blend. He argues that with normal small marine diesel engines, the 'natural stuff' is the best regardless of price. I'll have to prod him a bit for more info. There is a difference between synthetic being 'unnecessary' and synthetic actually being 'worse'. He is actually super knowledgeable so I'll be curious how this conversation plays out. Thanks again for the feedback everyone. Lots to be learned from these threads ;-)

 

[vyv_cox]

Yeah for some reason my local marina shop tech who basically lives marine diesel engines insists not to use synthetic or synthetic blend. He argues that with normal small marine diesel engines, the 'natural stuff' is the best regardless of price. I'll have to prod him a bit for more info. There is a difference between synthetic being 'unnecessary' and synthetic actually being 'worse'. He is actually super knowledgeable so I'll be curious how this conversation plays out. Thanks again for the feedback everyone. Lots to be learned from these threads ;-)

Most early synthetic lubricants contained some ester, not sure why, and this reacted with seals and other polymeric components. This synthetics achieved a poor reputation with many classic car clubs and societies. Most current synthetics have no ester content, in which case their properties can be of great benefit.

I run my 2CV engined Lomax on full synthetic, as being air cooled, no fan and a very small oil cooler the oil does get hot. In the current heatwave I have achieved 130 degrees C, very testing for a mineral but OK for synthetic.