Let's talk about the your Holding Tank Regimes

davidej said:
Sounds exactly like our boat - and when the joker gets coked up, the contents of the hose back-fill into the bowl.

Short of putting a stopcock in the line, is there any remedy other than changing the joker every couple of months?
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It may well be that regular dosing with hydrochloric acid will fix it. Easily bought in Mediterranean countries. Maybe weekly or fortnightly.
 
AliM said:
We were in East and South sweden last summer. There was a thick algal bloom between Oland and the mainland. It was like sailing through pea soup. It probably wasn't the poisonous one - I swam in it a few times, anyway!
However, we saw very few pumpouts in any but the largest harbours, so I hope they get that sorted before this coming season.
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As someone earlier said the implementations come in this season so it's been a bit half arsed ;-) in previous years. I've heard that there are many pump out stations being installed in marinas, here on the West coast anyway. But just try not to go to the toilet during July as at least one day will have to be spent in a queue waiting for your turn to empty them as the West coast in completely hammered around then.
 
I think bagging loo paper is an unpleasant waste of time and I don't see the sense in taking the edge of guests' enjoyment of the cruise by insisting on it. Loo paper breaks down in water very quickly, even the posh quilted stuff. The marina dockside tank emptiers, and onboard tank emptying pumps can easily cope with loo paper. I have never had any problem with this in 20yrs + of not bagging loo paper. BTW, for the black tank discharge pump I prefer diaphragm type to impeller type

If your system really can't handle loo paper, then just upgrade the weak link components in the system that cause the problem. The market is full of gear that can handle loo paper

Obviously I would ask guests not to flush make-up wipes and kitchen paper, and of course they have no problem with that at all.
 
I've also never had a problem with toilet paper and don't provide bagging facilities. Never actually had a holding tank either although chartered boats with them in Greece. I usually pump out twice - once after the main business has been completed and again to flush out paper. (Probably too much information)
 
davidej said:
Sounds exactly like our boat - and when the joker gets coked up, the contents of the hose back-fill into the bowl.

Short of putting a stopcock in the line, is there any remedy other than changing the joker every couple of months?
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I put hydrochloric acid down the loo every few months to dissolve the salts. Much easier than cleaning out the non-return valve

TS
 
tudorsailor said:
I put hydrochloric acid down the loo every few months to dissolve the salts. Much easier than cleaning out the non-return valve

TS
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We have a bronze check valve or non-return valve in the pipe from loo to tank in addition to the joker valve, called a duck bill valve here, recommended by our local USA poop guru when he installed a new loo for us, belt and braces for no run back.
 
The thought of keeping bags of dirty loo paper is positively disgusting. Having a UK mooring wihin 1/4 of a mile of a sewer outlet, and witnessing what is released after dark makes a total mockery of comparatively few pleasure boats doing things naturally. Glad when the world gets back some common sense.
 
Davegriff said:
The thought of keeping bags of dirty loo paper is positively disgusting. Having a UK mooring wihin 1/4 of a mile of a sewer outlet, and witnessing what is released after dark makes a total mockery of comparatively few pleasure boats doing things naturally. Glad when the world gets back some common sense.
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It isn't going to though sadly. Where we live now they are really 'anal' about overboard discharge unless you are outside the 3 mile limit. Our marina and others fall over themselves to proclaim their 'clean' status yet the stink in the ICW locally at certain stages of the tide when the town lets go it's stuff suggests somebody is telling porkies. They say the smell is from sulphur springs', yeah really, try telling that to the poop police at a random stop that want proof your seackcocks are closed and locked off to prevent accidental discharge overboard. One boat returning from the Bahamas had forgotten to replace the cable ties on their outlet seacock and 'Y' valve and were boarded as they came just inside the 3 mile limit by a local police patrol and fined $400. The valves were apparently in the correct position to prevent overboard discharge but just not locked off. The owner appealed and the fine was subsequently reduced to $200 by the court but... We are super compliant but at the same time conscious that our holding tank has a limited capacity and we really don't want to fill it with mainly flush water from multiple pees so I have a small bailing bucket kept on the aft deck by the dinghy, in it's davits, to clear any stray spray/rainwater before it is launched that has occasionally been used. I have heard of others who use the loo or even galley sink or cockpit drains for surreptitious pees.:ambivalence:
 
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Davegriff said:
The thought of keeping bags of dirty loo paper is positively disgusting.
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In fact it isn't disgusting at all, as anybody who sails in Greece will tell you. It is common practice there for nobody, on land or sea, to flush paper down the bog. There is some evidence that paper in enclosed anchorages hangs around considerably longer than poo does.
 
vyv_cox said:
In fact it isn't disgusting at all, as anybody who sails in Greece will tell you. It is common practice there for nobody, on land or sea, to flush paper down the bog. There is some evidence that paper in enclosed anchorages hangs around considerably longer than poo does.
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Understandable but the idea of a hanging bag or box full of yuk in the shower/loo doesn't appeal to me much either and there is still the need to dispose of it ashore somewhere later too.:disgust: I would have no idea where to dump such a bag of soiled stuff here, recycling bin, dog poop bin, or spend a happy hour flushing it down the marina loos.
 
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vyv_cox said:
In fact it isn't disgusting at all, as anybody who sails in Greece will tell you. It is common practice there for nobody, on land or sea, to flush paper down the bog. There is some evidence that paper in enclosed anchorages hangs around considerably longer than poo does.
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Well its my opinion it is, you're very welcome to your's. Live and let live I suppose. I've never been to Greece, never had a wish to, and you've ensured I shall never go. As to paper 'hanging' around, it probably stays as long as the trees or other natural products its made from. If I ever feel the need to dive in a marina, I know which I'd prefer to come face to face with!
 
On most inland waters in Europe you are not allowed to dispose anything into the water.
Every marina has one ore more pump out stations(s) and generally they are free.
This applies to grey and black water tanks.
Since 3 years they are no longer allowing 3 way valves even with padlock.
Difference is that you flush your loo always with fress water, but you still have to be do regular maintenance:
- use dissolvable paper for chemical camping toilets
- if you Need to pee and you are at anchor go for a swim and grin :)
- use a decalcifier 2 - 3 times in season and a twist and lock pump f
- use olive oil or Special oil to keep the valves fine after this
- decide to have a grey and a black water tank ( if you have space )
- if you have to go for a single waste tank install a charcoal filter in the vent line
- count on 15 lt per person and day if you don't visit shore facilities to determine your pump ou frequency and holding tank volume

I think that in a couple of years holding tank requirements will be mandatory.
I am co-skippering from tim to time a 110" motor yacht, which has a complete waster water treatment plant on board.
Still we are not allowed to discharge anything in the med inside nature conservation areas or within the 3 ( 12 ) miles zone.
 
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I've visited Greece many times and find the used paper bins equally disgusting on land and sea. I found that better standard hotels on the mainland and in the northern Aegean did not have this primitive system.
vyv_cox said:
In fact it isn't disgusting at all, as anybody who sails in Greece will tell you. It is common practice there for nobody, on land or sea, to flush paper down the bog. There is some evidence that paper in enclosed anchorages hangs around considerably longer than poo does.
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ghostlymoron said:
I've visited Greece many times and find the used paper bins equally disgusting on land and sea. I found that better standard hotels on the mainland and in the northern Aegean did not have this primitive system.
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Late 70s. Built a Porta Kamp camp in Angola. At the mouth of the Congo River. Poured concrete bases, erected flat pack cabins, drilled water well and put in a sewer system using land drains. Catermar, a portuguese co, came in as the camp operators. Some time on I found out that they all had little buckets in the khasis, full of cack smeared toilet paper! Camp boss, wot the feck is going on here! Portuguese camp boss, Oh mr stu, we always do that! It blocks the sewers! Well my dear friend, I built the system here, it is built to deal with cack paper! Cease and desist!
S
 
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again, thanks everyone for your replies.

Is their anywhere in the UK to buy Hydrochloric Acid?

As for the paper discussion and how disgusting it is. It doesn't need to be disgusting. Our regime is to only leave the bag for reuse after ladies have a pee. After all solid waste the bag - we use nappy sacks, are tied up and replaced. Nappy sacks are very cheap.

In the end, each to their own.
In general terms, I believe that holding tanks and pump out facilities are essential in the less tidal areas of the world.

Thanks for all the contributions, I wish you all a happy sailing season
Fair winds

Adam
 
vyv_cox said:
It may well be that regular dosing with hydrochloric acid will fix it. Easily bought in Mediterranean countries. Maybe weekly or fortnightly.
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Is hydrochloric acid particularly effective at dissolving sodium chloride? I would have thought the opposite, but have nothing to back it up with. :-)

My recently acquired boat has a manual toilet, but no holding tank. What sort of maintenance is needed? Lubrication? We put some antifreeze in it when we winterized the engine.
 
mihtjel said:
Is hydrochloric acid particularly effective at dissolving sodium chloride? I would have thought the opposite, but have nothing to back it up with. :-)

My recently acquired boat has a manual toilet, but no holding tank. What sort of maintenance is needed? Lubrication? We put some antifreeze in it when we winterized the engine.
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Not sure why you would think the deposits are sodium chloride, which of course is soluble in water. The deposits are insoluble carbonates, mostly magnesium I believe, with plenty of calcium also there. Hydrochloric acid reacts with it effectively.

Any sea toilet, and most other things exposed to seawater in the right conditions, are vulnerable to deposition by these carbonates. Some components, particularly the discharge valves at the base of the toilet, are susceptible to deposition although not all of them suffer it, dependent upon piping layout.
 
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