legal position re life jacket for a 4 yr old?

Karel

Karel

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Someone's bringing their kids on to the boat next week aged 4, 7, and 10 /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I've got 2 small and 4 large sized life jackets. I don't think the small one would even fit a 4 yr. old, and the 7 yr old might find it bulky (which would make it unsafe wouldn't it?).

The type i have are like this one:<ul type="square">
buoyancy-vest.gif

[/list]Any ideas?
 
We'll be on the Thames below Richmond. I thought that all kids are obliged to wear them...? When we're moving my daughter certainly does.
 
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There is no "legal position" re lifejackets for anybody on private vessels in the UK.

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As Captain/owner you might be sued if something went wrong if you hadn't made adequate provision for safety equipment, under general legal principles - negligence/position of responsibility. Dunno if there are additional requirements under bye-laws on the Thames. Best thing is to put the onus back on the parents as others advised.
 
it is important that kids life jackets are matched to their body weight. too much buoyancy can be very dangerous as a kid could end up floating face down or even head down if they do not have enough body weight to rotate/turn over the jacket.

My advice: beg borrow or steal a proper lifejacket for everybody on board,

tony
 
Probably quite a few here on the forums with kids jackets they've outgrown and still have that could be borrowed.

Might actually be an idea to form a forums borrowing club for kids life jackets, as they are something used for a few months then outgrown, or even in this case just for visiting kids. I know I had that problem with mine before they became big enough for adults.
 
The picture is of a buoyancy aid. A life jacket will turn an unconscious person onto their back and support them with their face out of the water. A buoyancy aid will not do that although it is suitable for someone who can swim and is the choice of dinghy sailors who need to be able swim, right a capsized dinghy and climb back into it.

For very small children only lifejackets should be considered.

You will find advice on choosing lifejackets and buoyancy aids on The crewsaver website

The Supersafe with safety line was my choice for my children when small.
 
Good. I wasn't too happy about his inviting his whole family on board - he only appears to have forgotten to bring his dog and his grandmother! I now have the perfect excuse to back down from my overpoliteness.

In his defense, he's not a boater, and I think he just leapt at the chance to take his family for a day out on the river, not realising he might be causing problems.

Thanks for the advice too. I am aware of the limitations of buoyancy aids - we use them for dinghy sailing - but so far everyone on the big boat's been a good swimmer (with one exception) and there's no plans for going out to sea till next year.

I don't wear one, but then I dive, and my daughter and I took the RYA first aid course recently, so it's a calculated risk. If the weather were to turn foul I'd put one on. She does wear one of course.

Hmm... I'm setting up a forum for our marina, so maybe a section devoted to sharing items like kids lifesavers would be a good idea.
 
The fact this thread was raised on a "legal position" is not good news. the commonsense approach is to tell the parents that what their chikdren wear as safety equipment is up to the parents and not you.
However you do have a duty of care to ensure the safety of all on board your boat, if the kids are not equiped to your satisfaction then the trip should be off.
I see no reason why you should foot the bill for expensive gear for a one off outing.
If the parents really want their kids to get into boating its their part of ship to supply the gear
GrahamC
 
Agreed.

It's just a lot easier to tell someone you've been told you're 'not allowed' to do what they want, than to say that you've had a think and in your opinion it might not be wise...
particularly if you've already said yes to the whole thing.

That sounds weak, doesn't it?
crazy.gif
 
Um yes. But unfortunately the "commonsense" argument has been replaced by the "legal precedent" situation where it's worthwhile getting hold of a no-win no-fee lawyer to put together a plausible sounding case that puts the fear of god into any unfortnate skipper whose guests had a mishap on their day out. It's £4k to hire a lawyer to defenfd the case - or £3k to settle now. Something rotten...
 
Yes, maybe, tho' 'twas ever thus. Even 50 years ago, if a child died on a boat because the skipper didn't have lifejackets aboard, the skipper would get sued. Possibly even end up in jail.

The difference is, we're more likely to think about it in advance these days. More risk-averse.
 
On the general subject of lifejackets for small kids I reckon the best sort are the ones with permanent buoyancy rather than inflating ones. We found these give little kids some added protection from bumps and bruises while on board. The ones that fasten securely under the crotch and have a grab loop fastened to the back get my vote. They're quickly grown out of so we need a constant supply of new grandchildren to fit them to.
 
I reckon that if you did have a small child die after falling off your boat then legalities would be the last concern. You would possibly want to suicide yourself. Yes lifejackets in some from are a must for wee ones. If you put them in something too big they will dissapear inside it as they wear it continuously and they will object.
Legally here a life jacket (with head support) is required to be carried suitable for each person on board and there are inspectors who do randomn checks of safety gear. A bouyancy aid if it is to be worn continuously however may in fact be acceptable because it is much more comfortable for the kid. (I wear one myself most times) They keep you warm and insulated from bumps.
So you must carry lifejacket. You may find more success with a bouyancy aid in getting the kid to wear it. Small sizes are relatively easy to find at swap meets garage sales etc. I keep a range at home and you could certainly borrow them but for the cost of postage and the time it takes from Oz. olewill PS I can't imagine the parents haven't enquired already.
 
If you are worried about the legal position, then the only sensible way to go is not to have visitors on your boat at all - particularly kids that have to be supervised and watched over

It may well be that the chances of an accident are small but the legal consequences of one are both large and unpredictable.

Above all, if you do take the kids on board make sure that there is a responsible adult looking after them all the time and that everyone knows who that person is. Dont combine that role with running the boat.
 
You are the skipper so you are responsible for EVERYTHING that happens whilst you are underway on your boat, and if an accident does happen, even if someone slips and falls in, with those bouyancy aids you have, they would have to be an excellent swimmer to get back to the boat. For dinghy sailing on a lake with no tidal flow, and safety boat cover that bouyancy aid would be ok, but not on a tidal river with an inexperienced person, out for a jolly with you.

see the crewsaver site as someone mentioned, would be a start for you to see the different types there are, all for different types of boating...


I personally would not even trust those types of aids, cheap and nasty..
sorry if i am being blunt but forewarned.

Have you got safety harnesses and lifelines and secure mounting points to secure them to ??????


If you have any doubt don't take them, or specify who you would take, and not every man and his dog..

your decision and only yours to find the right answer, that you would be comfortable with, maybe you will have a set of rules and equipment before you let them on board..

put the ball back in his court, and ask him to get the correct gear.
(all the family, no change from at least £300...)

oh and don't forget the lifejacket for the dog....

Sorry to sound like a grumpy sod, (which i do get accused of sometimes)...
 
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