LED Anchor Light?

[jdc]

white leds aren't white

The comments made already about the unsuitability of 'white' LEDs behind red and green filters are quite right. White LEDs do not emit white light; actually they emit a blue peak and a yellow peak, which fools the eye (mostly) into seeing white. They may get broader spectral emissions with time, but today they are really stronly peaked and not uniform. Notice how blue some car headligts seem to be in the rear-view mirror.

The green filter cuts some of the blue and some of the yellow, but it can't create colours that aren't there, so what you actually get may be more yellow or more blue or even still white, just dimmer. Too unpredictable to be recommended (the Lopoliht and Nasa approach with three banks of LEDs, one white, one red and one green, are ok for colour, but marginal for cut-off angle, also as noted before).

Back to the OP's question, I use an offset bayonet white LED cluster in the masthead - don't know about the make. However I virtually never use it because I believe that if you want to be seen you best use an anchor light lower down - 3 or 4m above the water is best I think. For this I made my own LED in garden light as others have done (I used 9 white LEDs in series/parallel combnations with series resistors; a bit crude but effective).

Topic drift, but I have just been reading an oldish almanack (it was under my bed!), and in the seamanship section it says, wrt nav lihts: "when shipping is around, if you want to stay alive use nav lights on the pull and pushpits, never the mast head tricolour". This seems good advice to me, and tragically pertinant to the Ouzo: I believe that ships see tricolours well enough but find it incredibly difficult to judge distance, whereas if they are looking _down_ at a nav light there's no question they are close. I suspect the same holds for riding (aka anchor) lights.

 

[Vonasi]

We installed this one a couple of years ago:

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/ua01cw-ultra-bright-anchor-light-light-bay15d-p-1524.html

At first I was very sceptical as it only has 6 LED's, 2 of which are pointing up! But we have used it for the last two years and been surprised to see that it is the brightest lamp in the anchorage. Many friends have commented upon how bright it is. It's very white as well.

I combined it with a light sensing relay circuit which means that we save even more electricity because it goes off at dawn without either of us having to get out of bed (always too late) to turn it off. We turn the circuit on as soon as the anchor is down and can never forget to turn the anchor light on or off - great for when you are ashore or on someone elses boat for sundowners. The light sensing circuit has not been as reliable as the bulb unfortunately (2 failures in two years) so I am trying a different make this winter. If anyone is interested in which light circuit to avoid then PM me to avoid me being sued by posting names here!

Go for SMD (surface mounted diode) type of bulbs, the old style are dim and/or blue and will burn out in no time at all.

Hope this helps.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

I agree with the comments about masthead lights being difficult to see ,particularly against shore lights.
What are the regulations about the height of the anchor light as I have seen them at a wide variety of positions?

 

[Vonasi]

From my experiences I feel a little differently about the height of anchor light issue.

If the background is a well illuminated town then a low down light will be obscured by being merged with the back ground lights. By the time you seperate the light from the backdrop you are on top of the boat in question. However a high up masthead light stands a chance of being clear of the background light clutter. From a distance it stands a much better chance of being up clear of the background lights and the closer you are to the boat the more it will stand clear, you just have to remember to look up as well as forward (isn't that classed as keeping a good watch?)

The masthead light also has the benefit of being visible all round unlike the low down one. Many is the time that we have approached an anchorage in the dark and complained about someone not showing an anchor light only to find that it was obscured by the mast or awning. A high up light also complies with the COLREGS so at least in the event of a collision you can't be put at fault.

A masthead light is also far better for helping others identify the location of an anchorage when a couple of miles off. Surely the point of an anchor light having a two mile range is so that it can be spotted from two miles off. Once spotted early action can be taken to avoid a collision, the anchor lights job is done.

Maybe the true answer is to use the high up masthead light as an anchor light and have a dimmer one lower down as a deck light so that you can also be seen at closer quarters? This is what large ships have to do so why not us small chaps?

Oh and will someone please find the man who sells those annoying flashing anchor light's and shove one of them right up where it can't be seen?
In one anchorage this summer we even had to endure a red and blue flashing light, night after night. It was like being anchored next to a police car!

 

[Salty John]

Colregs:

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

Colregs don't address the use of a masthead light for anchoring.

 

[vyv_cox]

Not quite the answer you are looking for, but there are several stand alone LED anchor lights on the market, including the Triton, which was my first basic design.

Power is use is minimal, and I can vouch that the Triton can be seen for over 2 nm, with a very bright white light.

I do have an interest in the Triton, but there are several other stand alone anchor lights worth looking at.

I bought a Triton when you were still doing them. Excellent product, definitely visible at over two miles. What's happening, is there an automatic switching version in the pipeline?

 

[Vonasi]

Colregs:

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

Colregs don't address the use of a masthead light for anchoring.

Your quoting out of context and you missed out part (ii) of rule (a) which states:

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in sub-paragraph (i) an all-round white light.

You need to move on to part (b) of Rule 30. Which states:

(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this rule.

Rule (a) is for big boats or little boats but most little boats will choose not to have two anchor lights on and go with rule (b). If complying with rule (b) then the light must be all-round and the only place to achieve this on a yacht is at the masthead.

 

[vyv_cox]

I do a lot of night sailing and see quite a lot of weird greens (and reds). The trouble is that the weird green tends to wash-out and look like a white from a distance which can be very confusing. I would not have thought you would get a weird green by fitting an LED to a conventional lens assembly as the filter should only pass the correct coloured light. That might reduce the intensity but not the colour? Odd but I take your word for it. Maybe the marine filters are not very good and rely on the tungsten characteristics for part of the colour?

This year we saw a tricolour that was red/blue! The effect of fitting an LED to lenses intended for tungsten bulbs is complex, and unusual colours are quite likely.

 

[vyv_cox]

However a high up masthead light stands a chance of being clear of the background light clutter. From a distance it stands a much better chance of being up clear of the background lights and the closer you are to the boat the more it will stand clear, you just have to remember to look up as well as forward (isn't that classed as keeping a good watch?)

But you are in a yacht with a tall mast, and therefore expecting that similar vessels might have their anchor lights at the top of one. My main fear in an anchorage at night is not other yachts but fishing boats. Not only are they unlikely to be looking up for masthead lights, many of them will be unable to see them when standing in a wheelhouse.

A good bright anchor light either in the fore triangle or high on the aft radar pole is only obscured for a very narrow angle of approach and seems to me to be the best option. Those who use a garden light as their only anchor light are asking to be unseen.

 

[Salty John]

Your quoting out of context and you missed out part (ii) of rule (a) which states:

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in sub-paragraph (i) an all-round white light.

You need to move on to part (b) of Rule 30. Which states:

(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this rule.

Rule (a) is for big boats or little boats but most little boats will choose not to have two anchor lights on and go with rule (b). If complying with rule (b) then the light must be all-round and the only place to achieve this on a yacht is at the masthead.

In the interests of brevity I was pointing out that the rule calls for an all-round white light not a masthead light. Yes, as we should all know, a boat of less than 50m may, when at anchor, show an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of obey the lights required for larger vessels.

A masthead light is a completely different thing and is not addressed in the anchoring section of Colregs.

Your interpretation is that an all round light has to be located at the masthead to qualify as an all round light. I disagree; an all-round white light hanging in the fore triangle, above the deck structures is an all-round light located where it can best be seen. Even if you hang an all-round light in the cabin, it's still an all-round light - it has no partitions or blanked out areas such as a masthead light, for instance, has. (A masthead light must show 225 degrees, not 360). The important thing is to locate the anchor light where it can best be seen and I favour the fore triangle to achieve that.

So, we'll have to disagree on this one.

 

[NormanS]

Not at the masthead

I know that an anchor light should be visible at 2 miles, but as a defensive device, it's main use is at close quarters. When coming into an anchorage in the dark, the two miles requirement is irrelevent, and it is very difficult to establish the position of an anchored yacht, whose only light is at the masthead. Far better, to my mind to have a very nearly all round light at a lower level.
I use a Triton LED from Mark Johnston, (see above). The light is excellent, the power consumption neglible, and although there were some early issues with the lights, this have been addressed, and the aftersales service has been excellent. No connection etc.

 

[dmmbruce]

I am amazed by some of this. I'm sorry Vonasi but I could not disagree more with the views that you have expressed. I can see that you hold them completely reasonably from your point of view, but it just seems completely contrary to normal experience.

Salty John and NormanS are very much on the same wavelength as myself and most of my acquaintances, amateur and professional.

An all round white at the masthead has become a common lazy approach to an anchor light. It does not work well. There are a few situations where difficult background light can make this a useful, if irregular, additional light.

Colregs light in the fore-triangle is by far the best. Of course they have to be high enough to shine above the deck structures. All the good modern led systems do this well and are easy to see from another boat.

As for the statement that hurricane lamps are useless, and blow out, and soot up. Sorry that's rubbish, if you set it correctly none of that applies. It sounds as though it was just turned up far too much. IMHO hurricane lamps, swinging in the fore-rigging are by far the most visible. Thats why they are still so popular.

Mike

 

[nortonmotors]

yep, just installed the NASA one, about 2m up from the deck.

Thanks for that - it's so good, I wondered if it was a set you'd made yourself.
For the benefit of others, I can confirm the excellent visibility of the lamp at that height, particularly in comparison with other (masthead or not) lamps in the Creek at the same time.

 

[Vonasi]

In the interests of brevity I was pointing out that the rule calls for an all-round white light not a masthead light. Yes, as we should all know, a boat of less than 50m may, when at anchor, show an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of obey the lights required for larger vessels.

A masthead light is a completely different thing and is not addressed in the anchoring section of Colregs.

Your interpretation is that an all round light has to be located at the masthead to qualify as an all round light. I disagree; an all-round white light hanging in the fore triangle above the deck structures is an all-round light located where it can best be seen. Even if you hang an all-round light in the cabin, it's still an all-round light - it has no partitions or blanked out areas such as a masthead light, for instance, has. (A masthead light must show 225 degrees, not 360). The important thing is to locate the anchor light where it can best be seen and I favour the fore triangle to achieve that.

So, we'll have to disagree on this one.

Ah, I think I see where some of your confusion is coming in. Some people refer to a steaming light as a masthead light. Where as I am refering to any light mounted at the head of the mast, i.e. the top.

All the same, all-round light is all-round light. If a light is in the fore-triangle it is obscured by the mast, head sail foil and every piece of rigging on the boat. Thus it is not all-round, any maritime lawyer in the world would confirm that. This is why manufacturers of every boat ever made place the anchor light at the mast head, sorry top of the mast. Anywhere else fails to comply with the COLREGS.

So yes we will have to disagree on this one. This is the sort of thing that frustrates me, the COLREGS are a beautifully written set of rules that cover all possibilities and set things like lights and shapes in stone, no arguing these are the rules, and yet people still manage to interpret them in their own individual way!

 

[chrisclin]

Me too - fitted to the aquasignal combined white and tri. Perfectly happy with it. At the time it was much cheaper than any other LED but the prices seem to have come down.

Another vote for searolf. My only concern about it is that it is quite a heavy bulb and the top of the mast whips about quite a lot. However, its coped with this year's channel crossing without loosening in the holder.

 

[Vonasi]

I know that an anchor light should be visible at 2 miles, but as a defensive device, it's main use is at close quarters. When coming into an anchorage in the dark, the two miles requirement is irrelevent, and it is very difficult to establish the position of an anchored yacht, whose only light is at the masthead. Far better, to my mind to have a very nearly all round light at a lower level.
I use a Triton LED from Mark Johnston, (see above). The light is excellent, the power consumption neglible, and although there were some early issues with the lights, this have been addressed, and the aftersales service has been excellent. No connection etc.

The COLREGS are quite clear on all this. Anchor light on a less than 50 metre boat should be either all-round or as per bigger ships, i.e. all-round in the fore part and lower down all-round in the aft. Note that they don't say partially obscured by mast and rigging. All round is all-round! On a small sailing boat this rule is impossible to comply with. A small motor boat could but not a yacht unless it had two poles taller than the mast!

The COLREGS do give you the option to have lower down lights if you want:

Rule 30

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

Once again, written in stone, impossible to mis-interpret or so you would think.

So in summary, do choose to have a light low down so that you can be spotted at close quarters (normally if you are that close the shore lights are illuminating any boats at anchor anyway from my experience), but do have an all-round light at the top of the mast. Anything else doesn't comply with the COLREGS.

Rule 30 really isn't that complicated so why are we making it so? Next thing some one will be pointing out a rule that says flashing lights comply while at anchor!!!!

 

[Vonasi]

Here is a scenario that may help the arguement for actually complying with the COLREGS - by this I mean by actually having an all round-light at the top of your mast.

A Greek water boat comes into an anchorage at night heading for the quay. He's low in the water so the captains eye level is low down. Ahead of him he can see a motorboat at anchor with it's all round white light. He shines his spot-light around but sees no other boats, so he steers a slow sweeping turn around the motor boat and on the other side he collides with some idiot in a sailing boat who decided to put his anchor light low down in the foretriangle. First of all it was obscured by the motor boats superstructure and then once around the motorboat it was obscured by the sail boats mast. The captain of the water boat was keeping a good look out and approaching at sensible speed, but if he can't see your light then you might as well not have wasted the electricity switching it on.

A high up light, all round will always be much more visible than a low down one obscured by rigging and other craft.

Now some people will try to pick holes in this scenario saying things like there could have been a smaller motor boat low down behind the first motorboat, but I have placed this scenario in the real world. Small boats have small anchor rodes and will be anchored in the shallows where water-boats can't get at them. Yachts however are out in the deep stuff.

If the sailing boat had had a high up all round light then it would still be floating.

When replying do remember that this is only a discussion, but the COLREGS are the COLREGS.

 

[Bishop Terrorchoke]

Go for it

I am considering fitting an LED lamp into my Aqua Signal Anchor Light (actually a combined Anchor Light and TriLight, but only the Anchor Light needs an LED at present). It takes a BAY 15D offset bayonet, I think.

Loads of cheap ones on eBay, plus a few more expensive models.

Any recommendations?

We replaced our 10W anchor light bulb in an Aquasignal combined tri/anchor fitting like yours with a bulb from Ultraleds about five years ago and it has been (literally) brilliant. It draws almost no current - so we have no heistation in leaving it on all night - and it is often the brightest anchor light in the anchorage.

BishopT

 

[jdc]

I don't really like threads with vituperation, but actually I don't like much to be called an idiot. I _think_ that a light in the foretriangle is more likely to avoid a collision than one at the mast head - and I admit one can and maybe should use both - but in any case there is an elment of probability about it and neither is perfect, so one does whatever seems best in the circumstances. I actually want advice and to learn from shared experience.

My anchor light is not so efficient and casts quite a light onto the deck, and I think this spreads wider than the mast so obscuratioun is not as cut and dried as it might seem, so I return to my questions: 1. is it better to put the anchor light in the foretriangle or at the masthead or both? and 2. does the same apply to nav lights (ok, not both)?

 

[NormanS]

Again not mast head

Yes, I read you, but there is something wrong where yachts would have their anchor light 50 or 60 feet up in the sky, when the motor boat anchored beside it has her anchor light 10 feet up, and the boat moored nearby is not required to show a light at all.

I would imagine that few on this forum have boats in the over 50 metre class.

In the waters where I sail, few of the anchorages have any lights on the shore, so there is no way that a boat would be illuminated, but there are often stars in the sky, among which a mast head mounted light could easily be missed.

There are many "all round lights" mentioned in the Col Regs, fishing lights NUC etc., are you suggesting that they should all be mounted somehow at the mast head? If so, how?