Leave in/take ashore - for winter???

[Robert Wilson]

What does the team think is better? Does a boat (3.5t GRP fin keel, 1970's) take any harm staying in the water all year round? Is it wiser to have it ashore for drying-out, A/F work in spring etc?

Just seen tasdpt's today's PBO post regarding storage.

It has raised a question for me, for which I must make a very rapid decision (like tomorrow morning):-
I was intending to leave Khamsin on a swinging mooring in a quite well sheltered location in Loch Ewe. It is sheltered from all but the worst NW storms (and they can be BAD).
The mooring is a mile away across the loch, which in medium to high winds/seas is a perilous journey in a dinghy.

But I've just been offered a slot ashore, a last-minute cancellation
This would be beside Loch Broom (Ullapool) on a boatyard's hard standing and their hoist haul-out/launch. Possibly even with mast left up.
Secure, safe, monitored, skilled technicians on hand, a morning's sail away (50mins by car).
Apart from not having the ability for winter sailing I like the thought of "peace of mind". I have not done much winter sailing as the boat has wintered ashore six years out of seven in my drive, and the weather is rarely conducive up here.
The down side is it will cost more than I budget for.

The cost for haul-out/put-back has usually been around £600-£700, plus habitual damage done to mast-top gear etc.
It will be about £950 for the yard (plus any work done).​

Another benefit of Ullapool is that I avoid the hassle and cost of hiring a wagon-with-crane, sorting out the fishermen and all their kit on Aultbea pier and the hassle of getting the wagon with boat on cradle down/up my drive. Two ways - autumn/spring.
A plus of keeping her at home is ease of "free" maintenance in the driveway.

Nice problem to have, but time is of the essence.

TIA

 

[A1Sailor]

Ullapool.:encouragement:
...but it isn't my extra £250.

 

[Kelpie]

Maybe depends on how big this winter's jobs list is?
I generally just stay on the mooring, with the boat stripped of all gear. But it's a 50yd row and really quite well sheltered so not the same as your spot. This year though I've gone ashore, mast off, because the jobs list was getting out of hand.

A lot of people say that a boat is happier on a mooring- IF she is generally sound, with good mooring gear that has been recently checked. She will always face into the wind, minimising forces from the wind, there should be no issues with chafe on your toerails from warps and fender lines, no unusual loads on the hull from cradles, etc etc.

My previous boat was always much drier when kept on a mooring- I suspect the main hatch was not entirely watertight when hit with driving rain from astern.

 

[Kukri]

I’d say it’s definitely better to give GRP a chance to dry out.

 

[lw395]

A reasonably sheltered mooring for the winter is my choice, but your 'exposed to NW gales' seems a bit iffy.
What does your insurance company think of this? They seem more restrictive on what mooring areas are OK for the winter than they were a few years ago.
Is your mooring bullet proof?

I would certainly be looking at getting the use of something more than a dinghy to check on the boat. I've called on friends with RIBs when we have had prolonged windy weather.

 

[pvb]

I’d say it’s definitely better to give GRP a chance to dry out.

Realistically, how much is GRP likely to dry out in a Scottish winter?

 

[A1Sailor]

I’d say it’s definitely better to give GRP a chance to dry out.

I agree, but every year? He didn't say in #1, but Robert's boat was ashore for 2-3 years until relaunched this year.

 

[Spyro]

Realistically, how much is GRP likely to dry out in a Scottish winter?

Realistically very little. Rain/snow/damp, temps seldom in double figures

 

[Robert Wilson]

A balanced response - so far!
A1Sailor:
I can afford the extra £250, but I'd rather not!

Kelpie:
After two years ashore I reckon my winter's job list will be minimal.
The year I left her in even the fishermen wouldn't take me out because that NW'ly was SO bad!
My moorings haven't been checked since laid in 2010, but everyone reckons they are so heavy and over-engineered they won't be a risk. (I'll be replacing the warps (two) this autumn anyway.
I agree about loads to the hull when on the cradle. Two years ashore can't have done her any good...

Minn:
Drying-out? Past Forum posts seem to be evenly split on that, some say not a problem "not to dry out", especially on a 70's thick-hulled boat. I'm not so sure

LW95:
My Insurers have always been happy with the position and with her leaving-in. I'm not keen on asking them again in case they take the opportunity to change their minds!
Getting a lift to her is usually no problem - but see my response to Kelpie

Spyro:
Interesting comment. At least our weather produces fresh water douching; is fresh any better/worse/no different than salt water?

Thank you.
Forgive me for saying, but I'm still in a quandary

 

[LadyInBed]

Factors are suitable mooring, level of fouling, physical security, insurance and cost.
Mine stays in as it's on a fore and aft mooring on a river with low fouling, I pay for a years use and the insurance co are happy with this arrangement.

 

[Skylark]

I’ve only ever summer season sailed in the UK. I have no desire to sail in the winter and I’m happy that my boat is (will be, not hauled-out yet) in the relatively safe environment of a cradle on hard standing. Winter weekends are for visiting pubs with open fires, not worrying about the boat.

 

[jwilson]

I’d say it’s definitely better to give GRP a chance to dry out.

I agree with this - even in a cold wet winter SOME slight hull drying does occur.

Every now and again we ( https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) see boats put up for sale that have (after years of regular wintering ashore), been left continuously afloat two or three years. Even if there are no blisters, these are usually the boats that are reported as having "very high moisture levels" on haulout and survey, even if a previous survey said differently.

However the OPs boat is 1970s: if it doesn't have high moisture levels or some blisters by now it will be a surprise, and it's likely to be a heavy layup so some blistering/moisture is really not that significant - until you come to sell, when some buyers will get spooked.

 

[doug748]

If I had paid for an expensive, safe, marina berth I would keep her in it but, in this case, haul her out. You will have to do it anyway at some stage.

It gives you a chance to get some of the gear off and sort out maintenance and ventilation properly.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Factors are suitable mooring, level of fouling, physical security, insurance and cost.
Mine stays in as it's on a fore and aft mooring on a river with low fouling, I pay for a years use and the insurance co are happy with this arrangement.

Thanks:
Mooring - as above
Level of fouling - Not too bad at all, but would probably bring alongside

to scrub off (​

once or twice on dry, calm, warm, sunny winter days ...……)
Security - Crime-wise is perfectly, up to now!
Breaking adrift? even in that horrendous NWly she stayed put but bounced a fair bit. It was the strength of the wind that did the damage. Shredded headsail which was my fault for leaving it on....
Insurance - As above
Cost - As above.

Thanks.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I’ve only ever summer season sailed in the UK. I have no desire to sail in the winter and I’m happy that my boat is (will be, not hauled-out yet) in the relatively safe environment of a cradle on hard standing. Winter weekends are for visiting pubs with open fires, not worrying about the boat.

Ah, but you don't have the warm, sunny, clear, breezy days that we enjoy up here.:encouragement:

 

[JumbleDuck]

Realistically, how much is GRP likely to dry out in a Scottish winter?

Why not? Very low partial pressure of water vapour at low temperatures, even with high relative humidity.

 

[Robert Wilson]

However the OPs boat is 1970s: if it doesn't have high moisture levels or some blisters by now it will be a surprise, and it's likely to be a heavy layup so some blistering/moisture is really not that significant - until you come to sell, when some buyers will get spooked.

Are you saying you would be surprised NOT to see blisters/moisture, or that to see them would BE a surprise?

As for selling, well, I don't anticipate selling Khamsin until I'm well past sailing and the joy I have had from her would mean I wouldn't be too worried about the price.
But I take your point about spooking buyers.

 

[JumbleDuck]

What does the team think is better? Does a boat (3.5t GRP fin keel, 1970's) take any harm staying in the water all year round? Is it wiser to have it ashore for drying-out, A/F work in spring etc?

Last year I left my boat in the water over the winter for the first time as an experiment. It was a complete waste of time. I hardly got there (two hours by car and 30 minutes by ferry), didn't take her out at all at and worried far more about here than do when, as now, she's ashore. In your situation I'd definitely have her out the water.

 

[pvb]

My boat is in a marina, and I leave it in the water all year round. I believe the hull is less stressed when supported by the water (as opposed to a cradle). There's no need to winterise the engine or drain the water tanks. It saves the considerable costs of haulout and relaunch. And I even get to use it on a few nice days.

 

[dunedin]

My boat is in a marina, and I leave it in the water all year round. I believe the hull is less stressed when supported by the water (as opposed to a cradle). There's no need to winterise the engine or drain the water tanks. It saves the considerable costs of haulout and relaunch. And I even get to use it on a few nice days.

+1. And saves a lot of work decommissioning and recommissioning.
BUT big difference from a sheltered marina (some aren’t) and a mooring a mile away from shore access.