Learing to sail

[R8Steve]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and hope this is the right section to put this and apologies if the subject has been done to death already. I am looking for a bit of advice on starting sailing.

I’m looking to start working towards getting my sailing certificates and was just looking for a bit of advice as to the best way to go about it. My experience on sail is minimal with a few days out on a friends boat (Bavaria Vision 40), as crew on a 78 foot maxi racing yacht for 3 days and about 6 years of owning power boats between 21 and 32 foot in fresh water.

My ultimate aim is to own a smallish yacht (something like a Beneteau First 30 or similar) which would be moored in the west of Scotland and to have the ability to charter a yacht barefoot abroad but I do realise I am some way away from this at the moment.

Having had a look about at what’s available the most obvious option appears to be an ‘all in one’ option. I think it would give me the majority of the certificates I require and should give me a good grounding so as at least have a good idea what i am doing.

The blurb on the course says – ‘This Combo-Course Package takes you from zero prior experience, to full RYA Day Skipper (Coastal/Tidal) level, holding the Day Skipper Photo-I.D. Licence with I.C.C. Eligibility for chartering yachts worldwide. It is 1 x 5 Nights RYA Competent Crew, 1 x 5 Nights RYA Day Skipper + 1 x RYA Online Shore based Navigation Course + ScotSail® Online Day Skipper Student Resources.’

Has anyone done a similar course and if so how did you find it? I think it might be cramming a lot in too soon and that it may be better to spread the courses out over a longer period of time?

 

[Melody]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

We offer a similar package at our sailing school in Greece. Many RYA schools now do this in response to an increasing demand from students who want to get as many certificates as possible in as short a time as they can. I have mixed views on these courses but they are definitely popular.

The RYA scheme was originally intended for people who would go to sea on friends or club boats in between taking their Comp Crew and Day Skipper and this is still the best thing to do. If you can get a season's crewing experience before moving on to Day Skipper I think you'll find the skipper course easier and you'll learn more as you will already be comfortable with the basics.

On the plus side for the combined packages, they are MUCH better than doing a Comp Crew one year and then Day Skipper the next with no sailing in between, which many people try to do. Doing the courses back-to-back assists learning as you don't forget anything in between and can immediately put the theory into practice. Like many old hands I did my theory over the winter at night school and by the time summer came I had forgotten quite a bit!

I always warn people who have zero prior experience that not everyone will be able to pass a Day Skipper Practical after only 10 days. As with any sport, people vary enormously in their natural aptitude and speed of learning. However, I would think someone with your experience should be able to get to Day Skipper Practical level in that time.

One thing to check - is the online course the RYA Essential Navigation & Seamanship or the RYA Day Skipper Shorebased? I imagine it's the ENS, a short 8-10 hour course, to which they have added extra materials as it doesn't go up to Day Skipper standard. If it is the full Day Skipper Shorebased course that can take 40 hours to complete which requires quite a lot of dedication to do online.

I'd say that most of our students really enjoy the combined course and get a great sense of achievement from it. We often add a marine radio operator's course on as well as those who want to charter in Croatia are now being asked for this. A few are disappointed as they don't reach the required standard to pass the Day Skipper Practical part of the course but this is nearly always people who come with nil previous experience and who just don't develop sufficient wind-awareness in the time given. I don't think this will be the case with you but you might enquire about what happens if you don't pass - can they provide 2 or 3 days more tuition if necessary at a later date for instance.

I'd go for it but follow it up with as much crewing / co-skippering as you can to consolidate what you have learned before you head off on your own boat.

 

[onesea]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

We offer a similar package at our sailing school in Greece. Many RYA schools now do this in response to an increasing demand from students who want to get as many certificates as possible in as short a time as they can. I have mixed views on these courses but they are definitely popular.

The RYA scheme was originally intended for people who would go to sea on friends or club boats in between taking their Comp Crew and Day Skipper and this is still the best thing to do. If you can get a season's crewing experience before moving on to Day Skipper I think you'll find the skipper course easier and you'll learn more as you will already be comfortable with the basics.

<Snip>

I'd go for it but follow it up with as much crewing / co-skippering as you can to consolidate what you have learned before you head off on your own boat.

IMHO the whole post is one of the more sensible posts that I have seen from teaching type people...

One idea they do not mention that is strongly supported by some on the forums is dinghy sailing. I certainly would suggest a week dinghy sailing towards something like RYA Level 2 (if that still exists). Would be a great immediate starting point, if you are physically up to it.

I would even suggest if you fancy a laugh buying a dinghy (Mirror, GP 14, Heron, Laser) or similar to your taste cheap as possible after the course if you have some where safe to sail it. You may enjoy it and keep it and the big boat you may sell it, but the experience gained will be with you for life....

All the time keep going for certs as you wish. IMHO the most important thing is time afloat preferably under sail, but any boat just keep going sailing. Experience cannot be learned, just gained. Techniques can be learned but do not underestimate experience afloat.

 

[Babylon]

It doesn't matter too much how you do it - sailing and learning about it is a lifelong activity.

You can either do a combined bundle of courses up to Day Skipper level, or separate it out into distinct exercises over time, with the benefit of using different schools and of putting your learning into practice by continuing to crew (or skipper) inbetween times.

Some people on here have never done a formal course, others have a pretty high level of training.

My own trajectory was:

2004 Comp Crew (5 day)
2005 crewing
2006 Day Skipper Theory (evening class), crewing
2007 Day Skipper Practical (5 day), crewing, bought own yacht
2008 YM Theory (evening class), skippering own yacht

Aside from some one-day RYA support courses (Sea Survival, Radar, 1st Aid), a large amount of reading, and a ridiculous amount of time spent on this forum, all I've done since then has been about 4500 miles sailing.

If the course you're considering looks like working for you (location, time available, medium-term aims), then go for it.

PS - I've just read Onesea's post. I couldn't agree more: buy a dinghy and go sailing in it. In addition to the above, I literally taught myself to sail by the wind by buying a 55yr old Mk 1 Gull dinghy in 2006, gunter-rig and all, for £200 and trailing it up to the Broads.

 

[[70521]]

I am of the school that says that a summer getting wet, cold and uncomfortable in a dingy is not really needed.

 

[jac]

I am of the school that says that a summer getting wet, cold and uncomfortable in a dingy is not really needed.

Very true but if part of the desire is chartering, then why not try one of the beach clubs somewhere warm. Good way of getting SWMBO (if you have one) into the whole idea.

If you have some MOBO experience it will help a lot, you will understand the way boats move etc, hopefully col regs, weather etc. it will be the practicalities of getting a boat sailing that will tax you.

Not done a course like you, spread mine over about a 20 year period, and probably won't do anymore long courses for next few years as lack of annual leave is an issue but fwiw my suggestion would be:

See if you can get more time on friends boat, can he introduce you to others in a club?

Book a beach club type dinghy holiday and learn sailing itself in warm, sheltered waters.

Do the combined course.

Start looking for boat.
(Whilst looking, look to do some of the support courses, get out with friends, read etc, just to keep the knowledge vaguely up to date)

 

[onesea]

I am of the school that says that a summer getting wet, cold and uncomfortable in a dingy is not really needed.

A 5 day course can be in the winter as well... Then you can get truly cold and wet it does not have to take all summer...

 

[[70521]]

A 5 day course can be in the winter as well... Then you can get truly cold and wet it does not have to take all summer...

As both the OP and I either live or have lived in Scotland, usually it makes no difference when you go dingy sailing

 

[TTwiggy]

Nothing to add except 'hello' from another PHer

 

[Highland Bear]

As Camelia says, don't worry about the dinghy thing. You've got a bit of boating experience anyway and if you do buy a 30 footer, you'll be learning plenty about sail trim, which in my view is the only reason to get involved in dinghies anyway, unless of course you want to go racing.

Do the combined course. Comp Crew flows neatly into Day Skipper and learning like this rather than fragmenting it makes it easier. DO study the DS Theory, especially navigation, tides and the things which will need to become almost second nature when on board. The Practical boat handling stuff is just that, much easier in practice than in a classroom.

Do it, enjoy it and you'll have a great sense of achievement when you finish the course.

 

[WestWittering]

As Camelia says, don't worry about the dinghy thing. You've got a bit of boating experience anyway and if you do buy a 30 footer, you'll be learning plenty about sail trim, which in my view is the only reason to get involved in dinghies anyway, unless of course you want to go racing.


Do the combined course. Comp Crew flows neatly into Day Skipper and learning like this rather than fragmenting it makes it easier. DO study the DS Theory, especially navigation, tides and the things which will need to become almost second nature when on board. The Practical boat handling stuff is just that, much easier in practice than in a classroom.

Do it, enjoy it and you'll have a great sense of achievement when you finish the course.

I did the combined Day Skipper course in local waters (Solent) & loved it. Learnt lots, then went back to my little boat and really started to learn. The course & the book Short Handed Sailing are a great combo. Plus anything written by 'mad' Tom.

I have also started a bit of dinghy sailing (if you can call the X One design a dinghy). All time on the water is good, but not always relevant.

Start with the course, but try to get a good all-round instructor - that is crucial. They are only human and have their own strengths & weaknesses.

Good luck with it & say goodbye to having any kind of decent bank balance for the next 50 years!

Di

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

As both the OP and I either live or have lived in Scotland, usually it makes no difference when you go dingy sailing

I had a season of sailing a Fireball on the West coast of Scotland... Excellent fun, and far too exciting to think about the cold!

When I am instructing it is usually very obvious which students have sailed dinghies. At comp crew/day skip level ex dinghy sailors will generally learn so much faster as they aren't having to concentrate so intently on what the winds doing. At YM level I find that the ex dinghy sailors will still have a more natural approach and will tend to use their senses more than the instrumentation to guide them. Personally I think it would be much better to remove any wind indicator on a training yacht, the best thing you can do when you are learning is look at the sails, the surface of the water and really focus on feeling the wind and learning to anticipate its effect. These things are no doubt more easily achieved on a dinghy, and if you stop concentrating you get wet!

Dinghy sailing isn't for everyone and I was fortunate enough that I was sailing one before I could ride a bike. I'm not sure I would be that enthusiastic if I were just taking up the sport now... That said, a Wayfarer or similar is an excellent craft to learn the basics.

Pete

 

[Babylon]

I am of the school that says that a summer getting wet, cold and uncomfortable in a dingy is not really needed.

It depends on what dinghy. Before buying a yacht, I learned to feel the wind, the stream/tide and the boat in a Mk1 Gull: 11ft long, Ian Procter designed it to teach his kids to sail, you can see the family resemblance to the Wayfarer, and I never once managed to capsize it!

When I am instructing it is usually very obvious which students have sailed dinghies. At comp crew/day skip level ex dinghy sailors will generally learn so much faster as they aren't having to concentrate so intently on what the winds doing. At YM level I find that the ex dinghy sailors will still have a more natural approach and will tend to use their senses more than the instrumentation to guide them.

...a Wayfarer or similar is an excellent craft to learn the basics.

Agreed.

I remain astonished at how many skippers I've seen who've been unable to deal with basic manoeuvring of a yacht under power let alone under sail. Sailing onto a buoy is billed as a great feat of seamanship, yet its just a question of feel - which even basic dinghy sailing teaches you from the outset.

 

[armchairsailor]

Well, being in Lanarkshire, you're well placed for ?Strathclyde Loch on the M9 if you fancy dinghies, or heading out west for courses (don't forget the National Sailing Centre @ Millport) or east to the Forth (Port Edgar YC is always looking for crews, and the membership rates are good and they have dinghy courses at the marina if that takes your fancy).

Dinghies is definitely one way to go - whatever it takes to get as much mileage as you can is probably the most important thing to do, and you've got a good grounding already: that way you'd avoid the need for the comp crew. An evening course is always handy and could bring you into line for a Day Skipper practical course next year if you want to spread things out...

Everyone has their preferred options, which suit them best. Only you can really decide which is best for you.