lazy Brokers causing depression ?

[Pete7]

[ QUOTE ]
.......the seller fnds a buyer direct,.....will the seller then pay the broker for his troubles.......erm dont think so.

[/ QUOTE ] Oh I do, have a read of the standard contracts brokers use, they are covered and many are sole brokerage too... unless you red line through them and give the broker the ultimatum which we did with Ancasta and they accepted our amended terms.

Pete

 

[DAKA]

Sorry sun coast,
I have already clearly stated above that my expectations of Brokers was wrong and I agreed they dont have to do much for their 8% +vat.

I then just made my comment that if I was running a boat brokerage I would ensure my staff were more diligent/conscientious in that while not doing anything they could tidy, washing lines, removing fender socks doesn't cost much.

You make an extremely good point about if a broker cleaned a boat and then the owner sold privately however I would have expected as the boat was on the brokers dedicated sales pontoon there would be a charge for berthing/portage , in any event if the broker is worth his salt he will find the buyer first, I witnessed several leads wasted on that pontoon.

If ever you do not like my posts and want then amending please pm me, I am always happy to amend/change /delete , when the complaint comes in after the time has elapsed for amending I assume someone is trolling.

My title included a <span style="color:red">? </span> being a question not a statement.


For those that did not recognise the Pontoon it was the B Peters sales pontoon at Chichester, not sure who the broker is but sure it is not you
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Happy to agree you are the best Broker on the Forum /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Previously thought you chartered in the sun, what ever 'live long and prosper'

 

[Pete7]

[ QUOTE ]
I then just made my comment that if I was running a boat brokerage I would ensure my staff were more diligent/conscientious in that while not doing anything they could tidy, washing lines, removing fender socks doesn't cost much.

[/ QUOTE ] Quite, customer sees broker cleaning boat, and thinks good he is keen and taking good care of the boat, hopefully he will do the same during the sale and follow up the paperwork trail properly too.

We rejected one boat in Port Solent because the brokers (Ancasta again) couldn't find any paperwork on a boat that had come back from Antigua so big question over the VAT and duty. Teenage sales assistant said "yes I am sure it has had the VAT paid and it wont' be a problem" We walked away from that one.

Pete

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]
Daka it is up to the owner to maintain his boat and in his interests to present a tidy boat for sale. Brokers are not owners. Also its a no sale no fee agreement, therefore say the brokers cleans the boat twice a month for 10 months replace fender ropes etc, and it either does not sell,..... or the seller gives up and keeps the boat or........the seller fnds a buyer direct,.....will the seller then pay the broker for his troubles.......erm dont think so.

If you put a for sale notice on yer car outside your house to sell it privately would you let it get dirty and the tyres go flat?

I believe the title of your thread is very wholey inaccurate and should be changed.
Brokers are not "causing depression" its the ecomony

[/ QUOTE ]

What an odd post.

Sounded like, 'This is the way it is always done, so please don't rock the boat with your mad ideas.'

This is the sort of attitude that allows a Stelios or or other forward thinking person to change the rules, and before you know it, you realise what a dinosaur you are.

IMHO brokerage is a lazy business constrained by convention and conservatism. One day someone is going to come along and change it all and the sooner the better.

 

[oldsalt]

[ QUOTE ]
Daka it is up to the owner to maintain his boat and in his interests to present a tidy boat for sale. Brokers are not owners. Also its a no sale no fee agreement, therefore say the brokers cleans the boat twice a month for 10 months....

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely the reason why many brokers will go bust in the current financial crunch.

 

[Renegade_Master]

I see you have not commented on the points I made Major, merely sought to mock
Again points were......... Boat belongs not to the broker but the seller, in our case contrary to another comments above, the boats are berthed in marinas not on our berths we do not have any.

"you realise what a dinosaur you are"........ strange comment, you know nothing about the way we do busness so why make such a remark.

We act responsibly and honestly, and indeed if we have a viewing scheduled on a vessel we ensure the boat is cleaned first. However often the boat is not presented well internally perhaps being cluttered with customers belongings, do you expect us to "tidy up" inside also? Our fee is often negotiable, but some fee is necessary to run the business. Why do so many folks think brokers can do things for free, we are after all like any other business subject to overheads, such as premises, staff, taxes etc.......... not a charity

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I chose to point out what I thought of how you saw things and how I see things as a punter.

The dinosaur comment was aimed at the industry and like many other industries, one day someone will come along and do it better.

My experience of brokers has been frankly dismal and if you search this forum you will see it started with my very first visit to Essex Boatyards in December 2003, where I was effectively ignored and left to peer through filthy windows to see cabin layouts.

After that and a few other disappointing brokerages and yards, I bought my first boat at the London boat show 2004.

I have visited brokerages and yards in the USA, from the Florida Keys to San Diego and brokerages and yards in Australia from Cairns to Melbourne and compared with excuses for brokerages I have seen and dealt with in the UK, they are frankly a revelation. I was taken by my brother to see a brokerage boat an hour North of Sydney and when I got there, there was a man just finishing cleaning the boat. He was a self employed boat cleaner who was hired by the brokerages to give their boats a basic wash and exterior clean up - a half hour job. I expect the brokerage kept a log of when the boat was last viewed and last cleaned. It wasn't anything more than a washdown and check of fenders and lines. When we arrived the broker had already vacuumed the interior with a handheld battery operated Dyson he carried in his car.

Of course, I have never visited your brokerage so cannot comment on it, but I would hope it was slightly more proactive than the others I have been to in the UK.

So, before you dismiss my right to pass my opinion again, I will say that from my experience it is an industry, in the UK, that seriously needs to examine itself.

If your brokerage boats are spread around, I am sure that with some thought, planning and the will to be better than the competition, a solution can be found. After all, that is what business is about, being better than the competition rather than similar to the competition. A 'We all do it that way' attitude is not the best business doctrine.

Either you confine your business to placing glossy adverts in boating mags, along with all the other adverts, or you break the mould and do something totally different. But, viewing a filthy boat with the washing up in the sink is not my idea of fun.

If your customers (sellers) won't clean them, then rethink your strategy.


[ QUOTE ]
We act responsibly and honestly, and indeed if we have a viewing scheduled on a vessel we ensure the boat is cleaned first. However often the boat is not presented well internally perhaps being cluttered with customers belongings, do you expect us to "tidy up" inside also? Our fee is often negotiable, but some fee is necessary to run the business. Why do so many folks think brokers can do things for free, we are after all like any other business subject to overheads, such as premises, staff, taxes etc.......... not a charity

[/ QUOTE ]

In this post you admit you do tidy boats up, yet in the post I originally replied to you said, "Daka it is up to the owner to maintain his boat", so I can only base my answer on the what you said. But, now it appears you do clean boats.

No, you are not a charity, but if you managed to get more sales spread across the cost of "overheads, such as premises, staff, taxes etc" then the cost of each sale would be less.

I am not a broker, but if I was, I would be looking at what the other brokers are not doing and investigating if a small investment in one area may eventually increase sales and decrease the cost of each sale.

 

[David_Jersey]

Developed into an interesting thread from both points of view......where both are right, for differing reasons.

I think a s/h brokerage fits in well with another job or business but geographic limitations (plus competition) does restrict the available pool of <u>good</u> boats to sell at a <u>reasonable</u> price to grow into a business that on it's own is worth investing time and energy (and a bit of cash!) full time.....downside is therefore always difficult to juggle time into a good product for the punters.

and no amount of simple cleaning is going to turn a pile of poo into a desirable / saleable item. Indeed, even a nicely kept boat will not be a saleable item if overpriced......combine a pile of poo and overpriced then you have something a broker ain't gonna bother cleaning no matter what........I suspect sellers are a brokers constant PITA, as difficult to combine telling them the facts of life on the value of their boat and getting it listed. Probably the best solution is the one employed, let time wear a vendor down on price (everything goes at the right price - their is always someone buying a pile of poo)......but no point a broker trying to maintain someone's boat for 6 months (or more?!) whilst the vendor goes through this process. or not.

I think folk often buy boats inspite of what they are, and this applies also to using Brokers........having said that, the sales pontoon with a pile of poo moored on it is a bit of a strange approach...........

 

[Richard Shead]

One of the best threads I have read for a while as an ex broker..personally you are all right and all wrong

I have just got back from the pub with an estate agent but I am not going to post what he earnt this month as it really will end in tears! and he did far less than the average broker....

 

[Renegade_Master]

In this post you admit you do tidy boats up, yet in the post I originally replied to you said, "Daka it is up to the owner to maintain his boat", so I can only base my answer on the what you said. But, now it appears you do clean boats.
________________________________________________________________

Yes I did say it is up to the owner to maintain their boat, meaning maintaining goes well beyond a wash down.

Clearly if the boat is in our marina I will ensure it is cleaned prior to a viewing as stated however the boats we have for sale are not all in our marina so we often have to meet the buyer for an veiwing at a marina some distance away. Clearly the owner in this case has to ensure his boat is properly presented.

Yes I do remember your post regarding your disappointment at Essex BY, and agree that as they "own" the boats then it is certainly encumbent upon them to keep them presentable. I imagine they have a vast number of boat cleaning staff.

 

[Scaramoosh]

You didn't say where this was, but from your description and the picture with the trees in the background it looks like Chichester Marina.

If so are there any brokers there anyway? I heard that the guy who had taken over most of the Peters organisation had closed the office at the marina and just had one or two people working from London. I could be completely wrong however.