law and the sailor

[Guest]

as i understand it, recent solas changes to rule 34 mean that all vessels going to sea (ie into non categorised waters outside estuaries, harbours, ports etc) must have up to date charts.

i can only find one of my sailing friends (a YM instructor and ex copper so its no surprise) who does update his charts, let alone carry a lights list, sailing directions etc.

problem is, of course, that the rule is entirely theoretical until something horrible happens when it could then be used to prove all sort of nasty accusations in a court of non sailors.

and it will be interesting to see what the Hydrographic office do in the face of such an obvious commercial opportunity

do you keep your charts up to date? what are your views on this law?

 

[webcraft]

Chart updates are more or less necessary depending on where you sail.

Crossing the Thames estuary with out of date charts can be a pain as a lot of the buoyage has been moved in recent years. Shifting sands, shallow water and a lot of shipping mean that out of date charts could easily lead to trouble.

Cruising on the W. Coast of Scotland, however, by and large the rocks don't move and most of them have been found now. (I hope never to have a rock named after me). I therefore have less worries about sailing with out of date charts in these (home) waters.

An up to date almanac for port entries etc. is essential, however, IMHO, even if you have another source for tidal info. I also like to have good area pilot books of reasonably recent vintage on board.

As to whether or not people will be prosecuted - yes, I'm sure they will if they have an expensive accident that is patently their fault and it was at least partly because they were using out of date charts. However, I doubt if there will be spot inspections - only HM customs can board a vessel at sea as far as I am aware, and in harbour you can have as many out of date charts as you like.

I think this bogeyman will remain firmly under the bed for most of us and that any prosecutions that result will usually turn out to be well deserved - or am I being naively optimistic here?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[Eudorajab]

I hope to god you are !!!

 

[webcraft]

You hope I'm being optimistic?

You mean you want to see regular inspections to check if all our charts are up to date?

Or did you mean you hope I'm right?

Sorry, I'm confused . . .

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[dickh]

ONLY HM Customs can board craft at sea??

Went to a supper last night with friends and one recounted the story of how he was boarded this summer off Ramsgate at 2am in the morning by 'Immigration Control/Police??'; All of a sudden there was a RIB alongside with blue light flashing and with 6 large men in black wetsuits who came aboard to search for illegal immigrants - they didn't find any, had to give all details etc (they had come from the west country and on to the East Coast)
At the time it was very frightening as they appeared out of nowhere, apparently without nav lights, and the weather was rough.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[FlyingSpud]

Don’t want to get too legalistic, but is an ‘up-to-date’ chart the same as an ‘up-dated’ chart?
One way of reading this is that you have to have the most recent edition of a chart on board and that it does not need to be corrected. But, if that is the case, then someone with an old chart that they religiously correct has breached the regulations, while someone with an old chart, uncorrected, but where there has been no new edition, would not.
And whose charts anyway? If, say Imray, bring out a new Thames Estuary chart, does that mean that the boat with a slightly older Admiralty chart on board is in breach?
Seems to me that this could be a lucrative little earner for m’learned friends

 

[Spacewaist]

Re: ONLY HM Customs can board craft at sea??

Same thing happened to me TWICE, most recently in Studland Bay where I anchored at Easter on return from France. In the process of anchoring,around midnight, a Customs RIB came alongside, five people boarded and four passed me and went below without a word. The last one on board tried to calm me down but I was pretty miffed.

Once they had "been through" the boat (probably took less than 20 seconds) they were all sweetness and light save - for the guy who kept asking us each questions about where we had been and comparing it with the Log book.

I guess I should not have been so uptight, but I was not impressed with the way they dealt with us. Oh....... not one question about cigarettes or alcohol.

 

[Guest]

RN / Marines

Belfast Loch .... boarded by RN / Marines and a Black Labrador .... looking for arms etc.

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[FlyingSpud]

Re: ONLY HM Customs can board craft at sea??

ONLY customs can do this.
The whole system works on ignorance, the coppers etc assume you know nothing of the law and most of the time they are right.
Joe Public assumes they must be entitled to do these things, and as they do not object, they are taken to have agreed.

 

[seaesta]

Re: ONLY HM Customs can board craft at sea??

Last summer I was going from Amble to Berwick and just having rounded Lindesfarne a bunch of heavies came storming up in a RIB. They had customs logos on their wetsuits. They asked a few questions and I remianed polite and answered honestly. They declared themselves satisfied without boarding. Very interesting!

A mate of mine was boarded by em when he was aground on a mud bank. They did not offer to help but had a good look round. I suppose it is the price we pay for not having pirates, gun runners and nasty men (other than pot fishermen) round the place

 

[graham]

Re: ONLY HM Customs can board craft at sea??

With people smugglers drug smugglers etc routinely being armed you have to sympathise with them being very business like until they are satisfied you are genuine.