Lavernock Point

steveej

steveej

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Hi all,

After struggling to get past Lavernock point on Monday after spending the weekend in Porthcawl, it got me thinking about the best strategy to pass this coming from the west.

The first time I tired this it was springs, the tide started to ebb when I got to Sully Island. I gave Lavernock point a decent offing and ended up getting sucked south towards flat holm. After correcting the course, it took ages to punch through the tide at times only moving 0.5knots over the ground. I believe the passage took just over 8 hours.

On Monday it was a dead neap tide with light easterlies. I barely made it to Barry before the ebb kicked in and I just kept in as close as possible, inside the Ranie buouy and slowest speed at times was 1knot over the ground. The passage took 6.5 hours.

The trouble with Porthcawl is that the gate is only open 3 hours either side of HW so you only get 3 hours of favourable tide hence I keep getting stuck at Lavernock point trying to get back to Cardiff.

So what do people think is the best way to tackle this. 'Close in' or to stay further out? different strategy for springs versus neaps?
 
Hello, the tide over the rannie is extremely fast, 5 knots on an ebb tide. I assume doing ~30 miles in 8 hours you have a yacht? At Lavernock the tide is funnelled between Flat Holm and Lavernock point, with shallows at Lavernock spit and the Rannie shoal.
A (not for navigation) chart is available http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbo...marinas/chart/15942A60E9C71/cardiff-bay-chart
Always better to sail with the tide, leave as late as possible, stay in close to avoid the ebb tide from Porthcawl (mindful of falling tide and Nash sands) then you'll have flood tide whizzing you around Lavernock, aiming between Rannie buoy and South Cardiff buoy then in. Mind the wolves. There's a back-eddy close to shore north of Lavernock point on a flood tide.
There may be big ships entering Cardiff on a flood tide too.
 
That's an approach I had not though about.

I did think of leaving half way through the ebb just before the gate closed and anchoring for a few hours before having a full tide to take me back up but I didn't think that overall it would save me any time.

I guess leaving as late as possible and trying to punch the last of the ebb before the flood kicks back in could work better as you say. I'll try that next time.

Thanks
 
Came back from Ilfracombe to Cardiff about this time last year. Left as soon as the flood lifted us off the sand on the visitor moorings in Ilfracombe. Got, not unexpectedly, caught by the tide turning just off Breaksea Point. Then spent hours and hours going nowhere rather fast between Breaksea and Barry, before the tide finally eased.

Though we weren't in a rush, so didn't feel too put out. It was a lesson well learned though.

00b-track.jpg
scapegoatsanon.blogspot.co.uk/....../a-spring-bank-holiday-cruise

Next time I'll leave before the ebb touches us down on the sand at Ilfracombe and battle the foul tide down that end of the Channel instead.

A few months later, heading back from Watchet to Cardiff in light winds, knew we wouldn't make it before the tide turned without using the engine but had time to kill. We stuck to the Devon / Somerset side of the channel until we reached Steepholm, then cut across. In hindsight, the mistake was in cutting across the down-channel side of the Holms, for reasons CaptainKingo handily describes above. Should've held to the far side until we were above the Holms then cut across.

Or, as Dad pointed out, should've just put the engine on and made the tide. He's very patient with me :)
 
This is one of the problems with Porthcawl. The best tide to arrive with as well as depart with is the one that brings you to or from Swansea.

There is not really much more of a solution other than to punch under motor sooner or later, because there is no good anchorage off Porthcawl either. If coming up-channel it is definitely best to punch out west. Punching past Barry I imagine is very difficult and probably terrifying if wind against tide gets up.
 
bitbaltic said:
Punching past Barry I imagine is very difficult and probably terrifying if wind against tide gets up.
Click to expand...

Ironically, if you're punching into wind against tide, youll have the wind behind you which I've actually enjoyed doing more than going into a head wind but with the tide around lavernock with the wind over tide chop that you get there! but still a very slow way to get a short distance. Short enough that its tempting to just push on to get back to Cardiff which leaves you stuck for almost as long as if youd anchored and waited!
 
searj said:
Ironically, if you're punching into wind against tide, youll have the wind behind you which I've actually enjoyed doing more than going into a head wind but with the tide around lavernock with the wind over tide chop that you get there! but still a very slow way to get a short distance. Short enough that its tempting to just push on to get back to Cardiff which leaves you stuck for almost as long as if youd anchored and waited!
Click to expand...

Certainly is better to be going with the wind than with the tide in wind against tide situations.... one of our first weather mistakes when we bought the boat a few years ago was to get caught out between Barry and the One Fathom bank on a big ebb against a F5. Sailing into it terrified the missus so we dropped sails and motored back- was better but seeing the cockpit filling up by breaking waves behind us coming up the cockpit drains was an experience I can do without ever again!

You don't always have the wind with you when you find yourself in wind against tide though. Last year we took a chance on sailing to windward with the flood tide from Cardiff to Portishead in forecast light winds. 10kn turned into 26kn as we got to Clevedon and smashing through that race going in the wrong direction was absolutely grim.
 
It is possible to go against the tide if one keeps close to the shore on the welsh side. A few years back I left ilfracombe when the tide lifted us off our bilge keel. The tide took me as far as Barry power station. It was a fairly smooth sea state and the back eddies were visible. Basically you need to keep in close to the shore. The only difficult bit was of lavelock point when I had to put the engine on to help the sails. That was only for about 10 minutes but we were doing 7kn through the water.
 
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