Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Should my kids be wearing life jackets? It wouldn't half cramp their style .....
Latest PBO mag, lifejackets who needs them ....
- Thread starter simonfraser
- Start date
BlondeBimbo
Well-Known Member
I would love to see the risk assessment - reminds me of the time I had to do a risk assessment for someone who had fallen out of bed and make recommendations for preventing a re occurrence...
Don't allow people to go to bed!
Sleeping is far too risky - we must stop it!
BB
TSB240
Well-Known Member
I would love to see the risk assessment - reminds me of the time I had to do a risk assessment for someone who had fallen out of bed and make recommendations for preventing a re occurrence...
Needs to go on a course............
Of Viagra
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I always wear a life jacket under way plus i have my life jackets tested annually
I always tell crew that on a normal day i would like them to wear l js but it is their choice
However, once a reef goes in the main any crew on deck wears a life jacket
Once the nav lights go on so do ljs plus harness lines
If they do not want to do that then i tell them to sail with someone else
I have been over the side 3 times in 45 years. It is not funny looking at the boat several feet away from the water
Now i am retired i know i would not stay awake long in cold water so i want all the help i can get
But there again i also sail a Phantom dinghy & sailboard so i have done my share of swimming after boats
I always tell crew that on a normal day i would like them to wear l js but it is their choice
However, once a reef goes in the main any crew on deck wears a life jacket
Once the nav lights go on so do ljs plus harness lines
If they do not want to do that then i tell them to sail with someone else
I have been over the side 3 times in 45 years. It is not funny looking at the boat several feet away from the water
Now i am retired i know i would not stay awake long in cold water so i want all the help i can get
But there again i also sail a Phantom dinghy & sailboard so i have done my share of swimming after boats
pvb
Well-Known Member
Do you always use a harness line?
davidpbo
Well-Known Member
I agree and for me the risk (even on a lake) warrants it most of the time when not moored, but it is also a balance of risk against discomfort and inconvenience and I don't find my lifejacket uncomfortable or inconvenient even with a crotch strap. I do think there is more risk when coming alongside than when moored partly because the boat may still be moving. Our dog also has a buoyancy aid on in similar circumstances, not so much because of any risk but simple to aid restraint and retrieval if necessary.
BlondeBimbo
Well-Known Member
Not sure its the same, it's more like should you wear a helmet in a motor car.
I would relate, going to shore in a small dinghy in rough water to helmet on a Motorbike
Or
Sailing a yacht in rough seas (pushing the envelope type stuff) as when I would wear a helmet in a motor car - i.e. racing/track driving etc
In the conditions shown in PBO's article I thin the comparison is like wearing a helmet in a motor car when taking your mum to the shops! - rather OTT.
I was more concerned that the belief was the crew needs to jump to the pontoon! - No way - to me that is far more of a risk than lifejackets - if i can't place the boat in place at an appropriate speed and distance that the crew can just step across then go round again - and do it better next time!
BB
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see some figures, I am not convinced the risk is necessarily reduced in a moored boat. From personal experience I have gone in twice - once from a pontoon and once from a stationary boat next to a pontoon. But I still don't consider the risk high enough to wear a lifejacket in the marina, the outcome would have been no different on each occasion if I had been wearing one.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
If i go on deck - yes
Unless it is very light winds & i have a crew who could retrieve me if i went over
however, 90% of my sailing is SH
It is a bit like a car seat belt. Once you get used to wearing it it becomes automatic
Athene V30
Well-Known Member
Nearly all my sailing is singlehanded. A couple of years ago it was a bit rough crossing the channel so I did have LJ & harness on. When putting in a reef I found I was always teathered in the wrong place and the jackstays were not a lot of help either. Since then I have returned to the old way of working - one hand for the ship and one for yourself.
pvb
Well-Known Member
I don't know whether "wearing it" now refers to your lifejacket or your harness line.
A lot of my sailing is singlehanded, and I use a harness line (either with or without a lifejacket) when I decide that conditions warrant it. Frankly, the harness is far more valuable to me than a lifejacket. If I were to go overboard in UK waters, my chances of surviving are negligible - with or without a lifejacket.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Surely the answer is to organise your boat properly so things are in the right place
If they are not then the boat is not properly set up
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
This comparison with seatbelts and crash helmets doesn't quite cut it IMHO .....
A fit and healthy individual thrown against a steering wheel at 30mph or dashed against a road or kerb-stone can expect to sustain serious injuries. No amount of training or acclimitisation will prevent it.
There's no reason why a fit and healthy individual who is a strong swimmer shouldn't survive an unexpected dip, even in the U.K., if they are used to swimming in the sea.
Getting used to ending up in the water is something that goes hand-in-hand with boating IMHO.
Life jackets have a place which is very much dependent on circumstances. When at anchor fully clothed in warm gear plus boots I would wear a life-jacket going ashore, when dressed in swimming trunks I wouldn't. Everyone should have lifejackets, lifelines and jackstays and know how and when to use them - they're mandatory at night on my boat for example, but the last thing I want is a safety obsessed jobsworth using a blunt legal instrument to ensure I wear lifejackets 24/7 in 40°C ambient where the water is like a mirror and the water temperature is 19°C.
If I were to insist my kids wore their self-inflating life-jackets all day every day then I worry that they would get damaged in all the horsing around and would be guaranteed not to work when they needed to. I'd rather keep them for the conditions where they are needed than risk loss or damage every day.
A fit and healthy individual thrown against a steering wheel at 30mph or dashed against a road or kerb-stone can expect to sustain serious injuries. No amount of training or acclimitisation will prevent it.
There's no reason why a fit and healthy individual who is a strong swimmer shouldn't survive an unexpected dip, even in the U.K., if they are used to swimming in the sea.
Getting used to ending up in the water is something that goes hand-in-hand with boating IMHO.
Life jackets have a place which is very much dependent on circumstances. When at anchor fully clothed in warm gear plus boots I would wear a life-jacket going ashore, when dressed in swimming trunks I wouldn't. Everyone should have lifejackets, lifelines and jackstays and know how and when to use them - they're mandatory at night on my boat for example, but the last thing I want is a safety obsessed jobsworth using a blunt legal instrument to ensure I wear lifejackets 24/7 in 40°C ambient where the water is like a mirror and the water temperature is 19°C.
If I were to insist my kids wore their self-inflating life-jackets all day every day then I worry that they would get damaged in all the horsing around and would be guaranteed not to work when they needed to. I'd rather keep them for the conditions where they are needed than risk loss or damage every day.
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Athene V30
Well-Known Member
When was the last time you reefed a 27' in a force 5 gusting 6 mid channel? It is a bit bumpy, nothing is in the right place - it all moves! Most of the reef is done at the mast but I do need to move from one end of boom to other to tie in reefs - this is where I thought the jackstay would work but most harnesses attach at the front not the back which I think could be a lot better? And I didnt heave to as not sure that is allowed crossing TSS. Should I have reefed earlier - maybe, but going from reef 1 to 2 in force 5 is about right.
In response to the comment about harness only - I think the same. If I go overboard I have a limited life. It is unlikely I could get back onboard so a quick end is preferable to being towed about for hours!!
maby
Well-Known Member
Indeed - you could probably just as well have swum ashore in the first place
Pete
Hmmm, I'm not sure that an ability to swim well is necessarily enough to justify not wearing a life jacket. You are not likely to simply fall off a boat in good weather conditions - it's bad weather and accidents that we need to worry about. We do wear lifejackets when docking the boat or moving around on the decks under sail - if you fall off the boat as it is coming close to the pontoon, the risk is not simply landing in the water, it's the things you hit on your way in and the condition you are in when you land in the water - trust me - I've done it! Likewise the boom - yes, I can walk back and forth along the side deck all day without falling in - till you get caught by a crash gybe - again, it's not the falling into the water, it's the state you may be in before you hit the water!
macd
Well-Known Member
maby
Well-Known Member
Both of which, surely, are arguments for wearing...
...a crash helmet.
To have done me any good, I would have needed full motorcycling gear! Look, I'm not advocating making lifejackets mandatory, and I don't wear one in the cockpit in decent weather - I'm just pointing out that being a strong swimmer is not enough to justify not wearing a life jacket - many of the occasions that we fall in are linked to tumbling over, possibly from a significant height, possibly hitting hard things on the way in, or being hit by something hard like a boom coming over. I do believe that anyone involved in jumping from a boat to a pontoon or other boat really should wear a lifejacket - if you miss, you could easily find yourself in the water either unconscious or with a broken limb - and that is enough to drown even an Olympic swimmer.
pvb
Well-Known Member
People should never jump from a boat!
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Despite what people think they have seen in the article photos, the message about not jumping is stated in heavy text.
maby
Well-Known Member
jump, step - whatever you call it, there is a transition from the boat to the pontoon which includes a risk of falling! It just seems to me that a modern lifejacket is so unobtrusive that it makes sense to be wearing one whenever there is a risk of falling in. Falling off a medium sized yacht or motorboat is very different from falling into a swimming pool - you are a lot higher and you have guard rails that will trip you so that it is a head-over-heels tumble rather than a clumsey dive in.