Latest from HMRC re retuning boats

[Bobc]

Unless they change the rules again while you're away, of course.

Isn't that true of anything though?

 

[Graham376]

The Bill of Sale does not need any sum of money and even if it does have the common £1 and other considerations" this does not mean the transaction took place in the UK.

For those of us based in EU, RGR only becomes a problem if we or a new owner wants to base the boat in the UK. The RGR rule would still stand even if a boat is returned on behalf of the present owner by a delivery crew, which could include a proposed new owner. A sale is not complete until the final payment has been made which could be as little as £1.

 

[Graham376]

That's a very good point - If i live in the Uk, the seller lives in the UK, the money is paid from UK bank to UK bank in Sterling and we physically sign a Uk style bill of sale paperwork in the UK but the boat happens to be elsewhere then legally, where was the sale? I know the duty is on importing but how the hell would that be proved? Couldn't I say that ownership will only be transferred when the boat is delivered to a specified UK location?

The boat has to be located in the UK at the point of sale after being returned under the same ownership as the person who exported it but, how it gets there/who takes it there on his/her behalf is irrelevant.

 

[Frogmogman]

What is does mean, is that you can take your boat off cruising, to wherever you like for as long as you like, and when you return to the UK you won't be liable to re-pay VAT on it.

Taxing people for using their boat for the purpose that it was made for has always seemed to me to be quite ludicrous.

 

[lustyd]

Isn't that true of anything though?

Of course, but a few years ago law was a relatively stable thing. These days it's changed on a whim and the flip of a coin with little to no explanation or understanding of the consequences. These days I'm less and less certain that I'm not breaking any laws

 

[lustyd]

Taxing people for using their boat for the purpose that it was made for has always seemed to me to be quite ludicrous.

Lucrative, the word is lucrative ?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

For those of us based in EU, RGR only becomes a problem if we or a new owner wants to base the boat in the UK. The RGR rule would still stand even if a boat is returned on behalf of the present owner by a delivery crew, which could include a proposed new owner. A sale is not complete until the final payment has been made which could be as little as £1.

For the specific case of buying an EU VAT paid boat belonging to a UK resident who is entitled to RGR - this could work.

The question is, why go looking for a UK owned EU Tax paid boat and then require the seller to go through the RGR process so you can take possession VAT paid? - The UK is full of VAT paid boats that you don't need to get the seller to re-import it using RGR, and a UK resident with an EU boat would be more likely to sell in europe without the RGR hassle.

Although my experience of selling a UK flagged EU VAT paid boat in the EU was not without issues.

 

[Graham376]

The question is, why go looking for a UK owned EU Tax paid boat and then require the seller to go through the RGR process so you can take possession VAT paid? - The UK is full of VAT paid boats that you don't need to get the seller to re-import it using RGR, and a UK resident with an EU boat would be more likely to sell in europe without the RGR hassle.

The UK may be full of VAT paid boats but, sods law, not what you're looking for at the time. Lots of folks have bought boats in the EU and brought them back home but that would now add 20% to the price unless the owner gets it back first which would be easy from France but a chore from Greece.

 

[DJE]

A couple of points:

Does this mean that I don't now need to prove where my boat was at the end of last year?

And isn't this a bit late for all those poor sods who abandoned their retirement plans and brought there boats home this summer?

 

[Seven Spades]

It is actually the right thing to do. If you buy something and pay VAT on it, rings, watches cameras or boats and travel you should not be asked to pay VAT again when you return home. The concept of the boat being deemed permanently exported if it was outside the UK for three years or more was something that was brought about by the EU. This is a very sensible result and hats off to all those that made it happen and those that took a sensible decision.

 

[Bobc]

A couple of points:

Does this mean that I don't now need to prove where my boat was at the end of last year?

And isn't this a bit late for all those poor sods who abandoned their retirement plans and brought there boats home this summer?

You still need proof (especially if your boat was in the EU and you want to claim EU VAT status).

The RGR was always 3 years, so anyone who binned their plans and brought their boat back somewhat jumped the gun anyway.

 

[Graham376]

A couple of points:
Does this mean that I don't now need to prove where my boat was at the end of last year?
And isn't this a bit late for all those poor sods who abandoned their retirement plans and brought there boats home this summer?

If you have proof, keep it as no-one knows what the future holds.

On your second point, if they were in the EU on 31/12/20 then they can go back again within 3 years, claim RGR there keeping EU and UK status.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

It is actually the right thing to do. If you buy something and pay VAT on it, rings, watches cameras or boats and travel you should not be asked to pay VAT again when you return home. The concept of the boat being deemed permanently exported if it was outside the UK for three years or more was something that was brought about by the EU. This is a very sensible result and hats off to all those that made it happen and those that took a sensible decision.

RGR three year rules have always been there, even when the UK was in the EU ... try taking a boat to the USA. This has nothing to do with any EU rules ... the duties are being paid to HM Revenue and Customs. This has everything to do with the UK choosing to leave a customs union it previously benefited from.

When the UK was in the EU there were no RGR rules applied to EU countries as we had a customs union and FoM. We don't have that any more so EU countries are now treated the same way as the rest of the world - UK RGR rules apply.

The UK voted for RGR rules to be applied to UK VAT paid boats in the EU ... and by leaving the customs union that is what the UK got. A boat can stay in the EU and remain EU goods in free circulation, or it can return to the UK subject to the UK governments RGR rules. The EU will even give UK boats temporary admission where no duty is paid.

This is totally a UK issue, brought about by leaving a customs union and effectively exporting UK boats, owned by UK citizens, which were in the EU on the 31.12.2020. The EU allowed them to keep their EU goods status, so they can be sold in the EU as VAT paid but returning them to the UK will expose them to the UK rules relating to importing boats or to RGR if they still have the same owner.

This is simply a consequence of ending FoM on goods and leaving the customs union.