late 70`s italian boats to buy or not

I

icepatrol

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are we correct in thinking we should avoid buying italian motorcruiser of this period (wood) 56 footer. we thought they would make fab live aboards ?
and yes. detroit 2 stroke engines.
help anyone..
 
icepatrol said:
are we correct in thinking we should avoid buying italian motorcruiser of this period (wood) 56 footer. we thought they would make fab live aboards ?
and yes. detroit 2 stroke engines.
help anyone..
Click to expand...

Arrr now you see, you have gone and mentioned that material that most frozen snot boat owners have never had so you will get a very biased view
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Cant help with the request for info but it may also be a good idea to ask on the Classic site.

Tom
 
icepatrol said:
are we correct in thinking we should avoid buying italian motorcruiser of this period (wood) 56 footer. we thought they would make fab live aboards ?
and yes. detroit 2 stroke engines.
help anyone..
Click to expand...

Funny - there is a thread on PBO asking exactly the same question! To which the answer was that running does not get you away fast enough! This one did have clapped out engines, so if the engines work the noise will encourage you to run anyway!
 
icepatrol said:
are we correct in thinking we should avoid buying italian motorcruiser of this period (wood) 56 footer. we thought they would make fab live aboards ?
and yes. detroit 2 stroke engines.
help anyone..
Click to expand...

Timber boats obviously need more maitenance than 'cold nasal extrement' ones!

You MUST get a really good Surveyor to check the boat out.
A wooden boat expert Surveyor.
Then if the vessel is sound.
Maintenace is just that, Maintenance.

Not a flippen rebuild.
I know , cos years ago when I didn't know I bought a duff un.
Looked ok but rotten as a pear beneath the cosmetic bodges:o

Little Ship takes pleasure each winter fettling His 'Woody'.
Ask Him about varnishing etc if you have an hour or ten to spare:rolleyes:

I jest, it can be quite rewarding.
Spending all your waking hours in a shed somewhere, talking to other woody people about---- Varnish, Copper nails, Brass, Teak, teak oils, double diagonals, carvels, Varnish, Brass, Oak, Iroko, Mahogany , Varnish, Brass, Tetly's tea Fred Dibna de blah de blah:rolleyes:


Detroit 2 stroke diesels.
I shudder!

Some peeps like them, Not Me.


If you find a nice Italian or other Nationality wooden boat.
Why not?

Really do get an expert to check Her out.
Chuck out the Detroits though, imho.

Others may say different.
It's just My experience, fwiw.


Joking apart ref Little Ship.
A nice woody really is nice.

However You will, I repeat WILL, become a 'Varnish Anorak'.

Mind you on Little Ship, the drinks cabinet is rather well varnished.
I have seen it first hand when all the drink seemed to have vanished!!!!!;)
 
There are good ones and bad ones ... boats that is ... so do mention the builder please...
.. most of these will give you details on the vessel in question when asked, down to the material and joiner who did the work on which cabin if you are lucky ...as they are interested in tracing their history and where the boats are..

Then there is the question of where she has spent most time ... salt water is better than fresh ... as the salt is a preservative for wood. That is then followed by maintenance .. good, bad or indifferent... and you need a good surveyor...

... then there is the Detroits .... big ones at that ... often V8 or V12 ... 71 series (on occations 53) ... not so good ..... and then younger ones in the 92 series. 71 series are reliable old lumps and will last a lifetime or four (RNLI used vhe V8's in the Tyne Class..... and anything from straight 4's to V16's using same parts and technology are/were in commercial crafts for decades...). Easy to work on and cheap parts (I should know I have two...). The engines are a bit thirsty when not in tune, but are no worse than late 70's, early 80's four stroke engines for consumption..... noize ..... yes, without watertraps the exhaust is destinctive and noizy by modern standards .... Put water traps on them and they are equally as quiet as a modern 4 stroke.... any doubts, you are welcome onboard any time... Engines are sensitive to over sized propellors, and do need to get to full RPM's... so need some checking before buying, but relatively easy to do.. You can check the condition of the cylinder liners on these engines in situ, .... on which others can you do that without ripping the lump to pieces ??

Good luck anyway, and do keep us informed on what's happening...
 
thanks Alf.
she is a versilcraft. with 92 series engines i think ??
a lot of boat making a great live aboard with the odd trip out. only 700 odd hours.
survey was good with no major problems.
thanks again for your contibution
 
Depends..

The key point is whether it needs maintainence or restoration.

Maintenance is straight forward.

Restoration is several orders of magnitude bigger in terms of time and cost.

I can maintain my boat for a £1000 a year, a rebuild would be £30,000.

Depends very much on construction methods, timber and other materials used, protective finishes that may have been applied (like cascover) and current condition.

I'm a wood boat owner of some experience, never owned a plastic one, the question you have posed comes up in some form or another from time to time, I would hazard a guess that some rather spiffing looking vessel at what appears to you to be excellent value for money has caught your eye. As with most things, I reccommend 'to proceed with extreme caution'.

You have been warned.
 
icepatrol said:
thanks Alf.
she is a versilcraft. with 92 series engines i think ??
a lot of boat making a great live aboard with the odd trip out. only 700 odd hours.
survey was good with no major problems.
thanks again for your contibution
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Had a landing craft with a Detroit 2 stroke supercharged lump. One of the Saving Private Ryan ones. It ahd been standing for years. A new starter and it fired up first go. Great noise, unsilenced of course, but a lovely engine. It was juicey, but only at speed-the flat front of the landing craft did not help!
If they run now, change oil, treat em nice, and they will probably do you well if you are not wanting lots of engine hours.
 
Divemaster1
Interesting stuff about Detroit's.
Thanks for that.
My two experiences with them were awfull.

One would not run correctly.
Tother went on Fire! (wiring, to be fair)
Yep, I know this is not typical.

Just kinda taints the view of the things!
 
... a Phantom S then.... lovely boat and well built, but needs to be well maintained...

At this age, size and Price,also look at Majora 50 / 57, Baglietto 16 & 18 M, not to mention the 20M ....and Versilcraft SuperPhantom ... as well as Cantieri di Pisa Pegasus (21 - 23).... but the latter ones may be more expensive..
 
thanks everyone for your advice.
she had her survey and it was good, so were very pleased. sometimes we worry to much and should jump in. the water just mighht be warm.
 
Italian wood.

We have a few of various types here on the Medway that have either been imported specificaly or just ended up being used as liveaboards,mainly one suspects because of the amount of boat you get for your money.
However I always cannot help noticing as we go past,the inevitable weeping seams that always seem to be present on one or two of the the boats.
This hopfully is merely cosmetic rather than a forewarning of real grief underneath which cannot be helped by our damp english climate.
 
please dont do it you will regret the work that you have to do all the time and when you want to sell it nobody wants it because it is wooden. our family had a 50foot cantieri super polaris with 2 stroke GMs 300hp drank a lot of juice and is hard to find a mechanic to work on them and expensive. But they are brilliant boats if you put the work in and are good in the chop of the sea and go really well!
 
ash12 said:
.........and is hard to find a mechanic to work on them and expensive. ..........
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Qualified mechanic... at approx £25/hr (No marine specific is needed as these are industrial units)... and if a bit mechanically inclined you do it yourself ... all is mechanic so follow "the book" step-by-step and and you will be OK ... (may cost a bit to get the book, but for a private person, most industrial companies lend you one to copy ....)...problem is that people try to make shortcus ... that does not work with these lumps.... very little specific tools required...... a couple of feelers, imperial measure spanners and sockets, a torque wrench will do 90% of what you need to do...

Primary fuel filter £ 4.20
Secondary fuel filter £4.85
Oil filter £ 8.45
Injector £73.25
Waterpump £187 (admittedly last year)
24V alternator £190

.... would like to see the equivialent prices for a 300/400 hp Volvo/CAT/MAN/CMD etc...
 
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Been there, done that... from removing governor shaft from blower, weights and linkages up to fuel rack, governor gap, starting aid etc...... but once again, you need to follow the book..... and of course have the book...

Labour prices was two years back when I took one on for a re-tune.... simples really ... 2.5 hrs took 5 hours as I asked questions and insisted to be "shown and be part of it" ... bill sent for 2.5 hrs as that was the book value for a straight six re-tune...
 
The 92 series Detroits (V6 and V8) with a wide variation in the horse power range (V6 - 300 to 575.......V8 - 450 to over 700), are a well proven commercial power plant in both trucks and commercial marine, as we covered in a recent thread, in fact probably the same boat question.

Installed in commercial marine for their unsurpassed power to weight ratio (at the time), and ease of maintenance, rebuild ability (in chassis) and a fairly simple process to raise or lower H.P. by changing injectors/pumps.

As with most diesels they will not stand too much slow revs and will glaze the bores. No mechanical lift pump, was also an issue. Our local 'old school' operators still look favourably on the pre-electronic, Detroit range.

In saying all this, as always, every ageing installation is different depending upon the maintenance that has been carried out over the years.
 
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superb seaboats if well maintained and if engines run good can good give good cruising sppeds
look also at Admirals, classic San Lorenzo, Canados and Maggini Tecnomarine
I prefare the middle of this lists
we have an Admiral 18S, 1300, and Tecnomarine C55 Maggini and a Falcon 21.50 from 1990 with cold molded exterior
are run very well
the problem I say in all these is that if you pay the craftsman for the wood be prepared to fork out some extra money
altough an epoxy painted protected exterior every 5 or 10 years can reduce the maintaince bills, still it will never be a GRP boat
but IMO they are timeless classic and if you are a hands on guy you can have a fabolous Motor Yacht
 
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