Twister_Ken
Well-known member
I once reported seeing a red para. CG thanked me and said it had already been reported, several times!
Laser Flares
- Thread starter maxi
- Start date
duncan99210
Well-known member
Whilst I remain unconvinced about the effectivness of any laser 'flare', the cost alone is enough to put me off - £150! And it's only one part of the solution - I'd only really consider as replacing handheld red flares, not rockets or smoke. Stick with the tried and tested and easily recognised pyro rather than going down this route unless and until the cost makes sense.
boomerangben
Well-known member
I would be interested to know more about the ODEO flare and in particular know whether RNLI and SAR helicopter crews know about it. Would they be looking for it, recognise for what it is and so on. For instance I couldn't find out what colour it is and what effect does it have on night vision goggles.
As a comercial pilot, I am well aware of the problems that directional lasers have on aircraft crews and is of great concern to the industry.
Working on the basis that I am in the water and want the best and quickest means of raising the alarm and being subsequent located by a rescue asset here are my thoughts:
Without question everyone with an interest in marine activities and most who live near the sea know what a red flare means. A green laser might be someone in distress or a spotty herbert playing the fool. That might go for one of these fancy ODEO ones too.
Having raised the alarm and a helicopter comes to find me, a red flare will locate me and give the wind direction. A green laser might a) put a crew off approaching closer - they may not know if it is a safe laser or one that will damage their sight permanently or temporarily. I am pretty sure that once in search phase, they would investigate a green laser, but with extreme caution. b) cause temporary blindness to the pilot(s) - they won't be coming to rescue me in a hurry, c) cause damage to night vision goggles if being used - same result, d) cause temporary blindness to the winch operator and or winchman - same result.
There is perhaps an opportunity for laser flares in the future, but without integration into existing SAR systems I imagine they will be generally less effective than current solutions. A major problem is that of scale. Can you tell how far away these lasers are if you are on the receiving end of one?
Personally, I carry a strobe light in my pocket when sailing at night. Battery lasts all night and whilst isn't a pyrotechnic and no much good for raising the alarm, I believe that it would be a useful aid to my location, whether it be the vessel I fell from, another vessel or a helicopter.
As a comercial pilot, I am well aware of the problems that directional lasers have on aircraft crews and is of great concern to the industry.
Working on the basis that I am in the water and want the best and quickest means of raising the alarm and being subsequent located by a rescue asset here are my thoughts:
Without question everyone with an interest in marine activities and most who live near the sea know what a red flare means. A green laser might be someone in distress or a spotty herbert playing the fool. That might go for one of these fancy ODEO ones too.
Having raised the alarm and a helicopter comes to find me, a red flare will locate me and give the wind direction. A green laser might a) put a crew off approaching closer - they may not know if it is a safe laser or one that will damage their sight permanently or temporarily. I am pretty sure that once in search phase, they would investigate a green laser, but with extreme caution. b) cause temporary blindness to the pilot(s) - they won't be coming to rescue me in a hurry, c) cause damage to night vision goggles if being used - same result, d) cause temporary blindness to the winch operator and or winchman - same result.
There is perhaps an opportunity for laser flares in the future, but without integration into existing SAR systems I imagine they will be generally less effective than current solutions. A major problem is that of scale. Can you tell how far away these lasers are if you are on the receiving end of one?
Personally, I carry a strobe light in my pocket when sailing at night. Battery lasts all night and whilst isn't a pyrotechnic and no much good for raising the alarm, I believe that it would be a useful aid to my location, whether it be the vessel I fell from, another vessel or a helicopter.
LadyInBed
Well-known member
I see they are at:
Unit 5
Cortry Close
Poole
Dorset, BH12 4BQ
and Practical Boat Owner Magazine is at:
Westover House,
West Quay Road,
Poole,
Dorset, BH15 1JG
According to Google maps: 6.2 miles, 15 mins, Est. fuel cost: £1.03
So it wouldn't bust their budget to go and check them out
maxi77
Active member
I would suggest that a laser that can damage your eye permanently is not feeble. Even one that can cause temporary loss of vision seems pretty powerful to me.
There are a lot of lasers arround on the retail market that have the potential to cause eye damage. At the moment no SAR pilot will go anywhere near a laser because they have no way of knowing that it will not dazzle or blind them.
For lasers to be of any utility for SAR we need proper regulations so that a SAR laser can be simply identified particularly by aircrew and lifeboatmen. At present we do not have this so lasers have little or no utility for SAR, which is a shame because they could have significant potential.
prv
Well-known member
A pin is pretty feeble compared to a steel bar, but it can permanently damage your eye because it's all concentrated at a point. A laser is the same, compared to a flare or a searchlight. If it does get pointed into your eye it can cause damage through its concentration, but considered overall it's not all that powerful.
Pete
maxi77
Active member
Compared to your eye it is, and that is what we need to be worried about, just as you wouldn't go around sticking pins in peoples eyes one does have to take care with lasers.
VicS
Well-known member
Odeo claim that it is "Search And Rescue aircraft safe"
.
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jwilson
Well-known member
As lasers are not yet in any way satisfactory as ultimate last-ditch "SOS" devices, and may never be, why not concentrate on giving old-fashioned flares a longer usable life...
Instead of flimsy throwaway casings, a tough long-life firing device into which thoroughly waterproof-sealed packages of longish-life replaceable (at may be 10 year intervals) pyrotechnic materials coukld be fitted to be used....
I think I've just invented he Very pistol.
boomerangben
Well-known member
I'd be more than happy for them to point it at my aircraft (not that it is a SAR aircraft) as I am confident it wouldn't burn a hole in it, but perhaps not so happy when it is my eye ball. The point I am trying to make is that how does a pilot know that the brand of laser he can see is an ODEO SAR aircraft safe and not one bought off an auction site that will at best temporarily blind him. Some flying helmets can be fitted with a visor that filters out some lasers, it would be unfortunate if a pilot sees a potentially damaging laser, flips down his visor and hey presto, the laser has gone but all the time it is a safe laser held by a drowning sailor.
It does quote that these are Category 3R lasers, which have a low risk of injury, but on the basis you get only brief incidental exposure. However on a pitch black night, if you spot a potential target, you don't let it out of your sight. In fact that is a basic tenet of all MOB scenarios.
It is only truly SAR aircraft safe if it has been tested in a range of scenarios, using night vision goggles, IR cameras, bare eyeballs, eyeballs behind various visors and so on. It might well have been done, but it is a shame the website is so vague. It would be nice to know more, because if they are safe to use and do attract attention and aid the search effort they offer a very nice solution.
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prv
Well-known member
Which is what many still use in the US, where they're not so paranoid about firearms.
Pete
Tidewaiter2
New member
And on the continent they have those six shot magazine pistolss in red, green?, white which Compass 24 advertise.
One weird bloke in Hungerford(who should have been clocked well before by any intelligent firearms certifier) and no decent citizen can have a handgun/very pistol, but the crims can hire or buy a 9mm for as little as £25.00 just like that
http://www.ybw.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif
maxi77
Active member
Do they have any certification from an independant source to verify that, and as some one else said how does the pilot know it is one of theirs and not some cheap overpowered pointer
jfkal
Active member
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Houssie
New member
I bought one of these about 6 months ago.
http://highpowergreenlaser.com/full...r.html?sgmid=58545886708baa041361889b4f392a97
and put it in my grab bag along with my other life safety kit.
Over the christmas holiday we carried out a little test and managed to see the laser very clearly from Brighton Marina to the pier on a very wet dull afternoon. (>2 Miles)
NB: The likelihood of the beam staying still long enough (particularly in a life-raft in a rough sea) to cause any helicopter pilot harm would be virtually impossible.
If i was in my life-raft at night and i needed to be seen , i would hesitate to use it.
Steve
http://highpowergreenlaser.com/full...r.html?sgmid=58545886708baa041361889b4f392a97
and put it in my grab bag along with my other life safety kit.
Over the christmas holiday we carried out a little test and managed to see the laser very clearly from Brighton Marina to the pier on a very wet dull afternoon. (>2 Miles)
NB: The likelihood of the beam staying still long enough (particularly in a life-raft in a rough sea) to cause any helicopter pilot harm would be virtually impossible.
If i was in my life-raft at night and i needed to be seen , i would hesitate to use it.
Steve