Laser flares

pugwash

pugwash

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Been away and just got home to the new YM and its story about laser flares. Looks a good idea but I have questions. When you start to sink after hitting a floating object in mid Channel what do you actually do to attract attention? Wave it in circles? Flash SOS in morse? If you beam it at a ship's bridge, I don't think many lookouts (if such things exist) would recognise it as a distress signal. Has anyone invented a signal protocol? When would you choose green over red and pay a lot more for it?

Meanwhile I've got 16 out of date flares in my shed. Any takers?
 
I've carried a green laser flare for over a year- unless the red ones have improved ,it is vastly superior as it throws a beam so one knows just where it's pointed.

Don't believe all you read, these were available in the UK for about £200- I paid £65 plus shipping, although at the moment I can't quite find the supplier's details in Australia.

My view was, and remains, that as a supplementary device for my PLB- I could attract attention (2 miles range) for a searcher looking specifically for my homing beacon- it might of course attract others unaware of my plight as the light is very bright and must be used with great caution
 
Just a couple of points to note about these green laser flares.

If you happen to "hit" a member of the helicopter/lifeboat/ships crew in the face with one of these things it can cause momentary blindness akin to that caused by someone taking a flash photo of you in a darkened room. Similarly if the beam catches a defect in the windscreen or is reflected within the cockpit/bridge it can be very distracting. I doubt they would do much good to a set of night vision googles and may actually reduce your chances of being found.

These have become a major issue in the aviation sector as spotty herberts insist on pointing them at aircraft for a laugh. I believe the CAA are looking at ways of having them outlawed.

Might I suggest as an alternative a small strobe or day night flare that fits easily in the pocket. The advantage of the flare is that not only is there a light source, there is a heat source which can be picked up on infra red cameras fitted to most SAR helicopters these days. Of course the flare is also useful during the day too!
 
Before I go on, I must state that am an Authorised UK Importer & Reseller of Rescue Laser Flares; and was the company who supplied both Yachting Monthly & Motorboat Monthly the evaluation products:

The Rescue Laser Flares have been tested with NVG and have been approved by various UK governmental departments.

The problem is people are buying cheap laser pointers and pointing them at the aircraft. These are focused dots of lights unlike the rescue lasers.

Rescue Lasers Flares and Laser Pointers are two different products,
The rescue flares produce a line of light, that progressive gets bigger the large distance its projected. So the time it hits the aircraft its a massive line. The flashing affect is caused by moving the flare side to side across your fingers that you use to sight. At 16 miles this line now, 6000 feet long

http://www.rescue-flares.co.uk/How_to_use_Rescue_safety_flares.html

This prevents blinding the pilots, last thing that you really want to crash your the helicopter coming to rescue you!

These have been approved by the USA authorities and have been supplied to USA military and coastguard. I believe the Spanish Airforce are using these too.

An independent review can be found at the following:

http://www.equipped.org/rescuelaser.htm

Myke Hawke ((http://www.mykehawke.com/) and Five Gadget Show Review:

http://fwd.five.tv/gadgets/all/great...e-laser-flares

The Motorboat Monthly Articile June 2009 issue.

http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issu...&prev=sub&p=80

The downside to the rescue laser flare is that its is directional, and its designed to be used as pinpoint instead of parachute replacement. To guide rescuers to your location. (How many times you watched the TV rescue shows where the Helicopter cant find the causality.)

Ideal after pressing the PLB or EPRiB or DSC Button or placing Mayday call

I still carry parachute flares on my boat, as last resort, since these can be seen in all directions.

One last point, the Laser flares can be used for picking up retro-reflective tape, when the laser hits the object you get bright flash back, this is useful in finding MOB at night or people in the hills if they have the retro-reflective tape in the clothing up to 1 mile, I dont know why they tested it at 1 1/2 miles (1.6 Km)!

From the FAQ on the website:

6. Won't they stun the pilot/captain whose attention I'm trying to get?

No. When the fan of light crosses your target's vision it will appear as a brilliant flash in the distance and will in no way impair their night vision.

Comparison of cockpit illumination power densities of Rescue Laser Flare® emergency signalling device vs. typical laser pointer

Let’s compare the amount of laser light power which illuminates an aircraft cockpit from the Rescue Laser to that of a typical laser pointer, at a common signalling distance of 1.5 miles. The laser power level illuminating the cockpit and hitting the pilot’s eye from the Rescue Laser is about one trillionth of a watt. This power level is very low because the Rescue Laser begins with a very small amount of laser light and then creates a very long 2 dimensional fan (line) of light further reducing the power density of the light. This level can be easily detected, but will not obscure pilot vision in any way.

However, because the light from the laser pointer remains in a relatively small one-dimensional pencil thin beam, the laser beam spot size at the aircraft is about 240CM (8 ft) in diameter. Because all of this light is concentrated in a relatively small spot, rather than spread out in a long line like the Rescue Laser, the power density impinging on the pilot’s eye is about 1,000 times greater from the laser pointer, at this distance.

Therefore, although the signalling capability of the Rescue Laser emergency rescue and signalling device remains effective for signalling SAR aircraft, the power levels (brightness) of the Rescue Laser is reduced by one thousand times, this is a level where visual flight acuity is not affected.

It should be noted that even the laser pointer’s output although bright, is still about ten thousand times lower than the power level where eye injury can occur, at this distance.

Supporting analysis:

Rescue Laser Flare®
7mW
5degree fan angle (87mrad)
1mrad narrow axis divergence angle
1.5miles = 2,414 meters
Area of laser line at 2,414 Meters = 5.07 Million cm2
Watts/cm2 = .007 / 5,070,000cm2 = 1.38 x 10-9 Watt/cm2 = 0.000,000,001,4Watts/cm2

Typical Laser Pointer
5mW
1mrad divergence
1.5miles = 2,414 meters
Area of spot at 2,414 meters = 45,745 cm2
Watts/cm2 = .005/45,745cm2 = 1.1x10-7 Watt/cm2 = 0.000,000,1Watts/cm2

The laser light power density from the laser pointer is 1,000 times higher than that from the Laser Flare, when both measured at 1.5 miles

Sorry for techincal explaination! These figures have been supplied by the manufactuer, but this what makes the difference between Pointers and Flares.



Any Questions on this product feel free to ask me, and I will do my best to honestly answer them.


Scott
www.rescue-flares.co.uk
 
Another interesting fact:

Quote from: Marine Offshore Rescue Advisory Group: Good practice in offshore rescue.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/otopdf/2001/oto01040.pdf

Image Intensifiers. The most appropriate form of image intensifier is that used in Night
Vision Goggles (NVG). These are already widely used in the armed forces and, if used by
those searching for survivors at sea, would, according to the HSE report, significantly
increase their chances of detecting and locating survivors at night. They could also provide
rescuers with greater freedom of action when actually rescuing survivors.
A limitation of NVG is that bright lights such as flares or searchlights can temporarily blind
the equipment. However careful operation can reduce the risk of this happening and, if it
does, the search can still be continued with the naked eye until the NVG regain efficiency.
It is expected that the use of NVG would significantly enhance the chances of detecting
survivors at night, particularly if they are wearing strobe lights or reflective tape (with the
search vessel using a searchlight screened from the NVG).


So carrying traditional flares will affect your rescuers helicopter if they have night vision (NVG).

Rescue Laser Flares do not do this with NVG and have been tested with NVG in UK & USA.

S.
 
Interesting and thanks for the education. Have the MCA tested these things and incorporated them into their SAR documentation? Hopefully so and therefore SAR crews will know of their existance.

Great in terms of long battery life which is clearly an issue with pyros. Having said that I would be interested to hear how easy they are to use when bobbing in the sea either in or out of a liferaft in any sea. And also I have to say the independant report you site reveals the laser flares are not much good during the day and I certainly would prefer to have a smoke flare for that scenario.
 
Orange Smoke is good, the non-pyrotechinic device that I am trying to get recognise is the rescue streamer.

http://www.rescue-flares.co.uk/Rescue Streamer.pdf is the information on that product.

Basicly its a floating bit of specially designed plastic that floats on the water or lies on the surface.

Since straight lines dont occur naturally the eyes are drawn to these. A combination of Rescue Streamer & Rescue Laser Flare along with a PLB or VHF you pretty well covered.

The switch on the rescue flare, is twist action and once twisted it stays on.

S.
 
Now, don't ask why at 04.12 on New Years day I am thinking about this but here I am.

I have seen a few articles about laser flares and have wondered about the problems of temporary blinding a helicopter pilot (or for that matter a lfieboat helmsman trying to navigate rock/sandbanks/wreckage etc) who looking for you.

Okay at 1.5 miles, but I imagine in the hands of a desperate person in the sea a laser flashing in the eyes, it could become very distracting at close range.

I wonder has anyone actually as a SAR helicopter pilot or the RNLI?

The coast guard certainly are aware of laser flares, and I would imaging anyone with a little common sense seeing bright green/red flashes out to sea would think somethings amiss, even if its not a recognised distress signal.

Intersting point about the use of infrared cameras as well - if its early evening in the summer it can miss a person in the water with a laser, but its not going to miss a handheld flare burning at +250deg C.

SPR, I also have a question about the 'Rescue Streamer'. Nice idea, I have always thought something in the water like water release dye would be good addition to a lifejacket, but what about when help arrives? Is there not the potential for it to get caught in the propeller of a friendly rescuer?
 
There really is not at first glance enough information to say just how safe these laser flares really are. Certainly even if they are safe at 1.5 miles are they at 1.5 yards. when will some one be the first to damage their own or some one elses eyesight through poor control of their use. What is the NOHD, what is the impact of looking at these lasers through say 7x50 binoculars, etc etc.

Flares are moderately safe because every one, just about, realises they are bl**dy dangerous. On the other hand if you promote these lasers as 'safe' we will have people looking into the output to see if it works lasing their mates across the marina etc etc. Lasers are potentially dangerous and must be treated as such, and if one adds to that the present lack of international standards in their use I am not sure if I see their utility at the moment.

I do think it is an interesting idea though and perhaps if we can get some proper international stamndards both in their construction and operation so that people will realise they are a distress signal and not some silly oik with a cheapo laser poointer there may will be a way ahead.
 
SPR said:
The downside to the rescue laser flare is that its is directional...
Click to expand...

Old thread, I know. I've since read about a laser flare that is not directional (it has multiple lasers) but I can't find it anywhere. Any clues?

I'm seriously considering not-replacing my flares, as I now have an EPIRB with GPS. However, I think that some form of local signalling is still a must.

What do the team think?
 
Well, has a protocol been established where anyone - or at least rescue services - would know what a laser flare meant ?

I for one may or may not think 'someone's in trouble' if I saw a bright flashing light, unless it did SOS...
 
My view is that flares are pretty safe if you don't attempt to use them.

If you reach the stage of wanting to use one, you'd rather it was there.
 
nigelmercier said:
Old thread, I know. I've since read about a laser flare that is not directional (it has multiple lasers) but I can't find it anywhere. Any clues?

I'm seriously considering not-replacing my flares, as I now have an EPIRB with GPS. However, I think that some form of local signalling is still a must.

What do the team think?
Click to expand...

Are you thinking of the Odeo flare http://www.odeoflare.co.uk/index.html

It was discussed when first launched http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241818&highlight=Odeo best part of 18 months ago
 
Last edited:
nigelmercier said:
Old thread, I know. I've since read about a laser flare that is not directional (it has multiple lasers) but I can't find it anywhere. Any clues?

I'm seriously considering not-replacing my flares, as I now have an EPIRB with GPS. However, I think that some form of local signalling is still a must.

What do the team think?
Click to expand...

If you try to use a laser you may find most helicopter pilots will not come near you.

For laser flares to be effective we need proper standards properly enforced and agreed.

There are far to many laser devices on the open market that are potentialy injurious to any ones eyes. Some of these have already been used against pilots who are now very cautious approaching many airports where they have been used. Hence the need for proper rules and standards.
 
The Odeo website still says waiting type approval, otherwise I would have added one to the Christmas list I think.
I recently got a torch with the latest superduper LED technology for about £12 in Aldi.
Reading all the bumph about the lasers, I think the torch may do almost as good a job, as one can see the beam.
 
Meanwhile the laser POINTERS - quite a different thing - continue to be a total menace to aircraft as pond life think it amusing to shine them at airliners landing, or orbiting police helicopters etc.

The number of convictions for this is happily increasing, but potentially useful kit like the laser flare have a bit of an uphill battle not to be tainted by association.

As far as 'blinding a SAR helo pilot with a laser' ( not one of these flares apparently ) goes, well the same could be said of a powerful hand lantern / searchlight; some modern night vision goggles have protection built in to shut them down - rather than amplify - bright light, but that's still going to mean an undesirably blinded / distracted pilot.
 
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