Landing dogs in France??

[Cruisehill]

Can anyone give me some advice on where dogs can be landed in France and maybe portugal - we are due to leave the UK later this month and plan to go from Dartmouth to Cameret, then across Biscay to La coruna but we have a bearded collie on board (she has a Pet Passport etc) so I wondered if we had to detour to certain ports to clear customs or whether we could just land anywhere? Any advice would be great as I can't seem to find any info on the net - everything is about bringing the dog back to the UK which we don't plan to do for as year or two.

 

[nelly1]

Don't think anyone cares going out, the rigmarole is coming back (registered carriers, portal entry, tick & tapeworm etc). We have some friends who take their cat the same route with no problems. Remember to keep the Passport valid with rabies shots down route if necessary, no leeway at all on dates.

Useful for the return, unless you are planning to use the Bilbao-Portsmouth route (they have a small number of kennels now during the summer, gets very booked up), rather than subject her to the full overnight Western Channel crossing use the fast St Malo - St Helier route & clear the furry one back in through Jersey. Will need to hire a car/find someone to take her as cannot travel as foot passenger, but only a short hop back for the boat and then the Channel Islands to explore, even better if the boat has enough hands for someone to take the dog & someone to take the boat & meet, no need to kennel in the interim on Jersey then. You cannot use the Marinas, but no problems on the waiting pontoon in St Helier (attached to land!) or anchoring off, although for the Bailiwick of Guernsey you should clear her again (declare her really, just a form) through Customs in either St Peter Port or Braye before landing her on any of their Islands, & carry the form. Again no-go in Beaucette or the St Peter Port Marinas, but fine on the waiting pontoons (not attached to land).

Apologies if you've already been to the Channel Islands & I'm preaching to the converted, if not, GO - worth considering on the way out too, then just continue on in to France. Shorter landfall for the old bladder too!!

Before you depart these shores, or the CI if you go that way, get her chip checked, much easier to know ahead of time if there are problems.......... but if you are away for several years time to sort........

 

[Grehan]

Nelly's advice is pretty spot on. We've had no problems bringing Chloe into France on board Grehan, but the return arrangements need to be correct. That is, rabies jabs, chip, tests, wait six months before she can return, examined by a vet in France before return (must be no more than 48? hours before, no less than 24 hours?) (not sure on the hours), must return via an 'approved' route and carrier - for us this has meant the Ferry. Never had a problem getting her back in, have always had the paperwork in order, it's never been checked.

Is your dog a good sailor? Chloe is an indifferent one (sleeps under the table) but an avid swimmer! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[LadyJessie]

Agree with the above. You can legally enter any EU port (outside of the UK) if you have a Pet Passport. It is coming back to the UK that is a pain as the UK is not following the standard EU Pet Passport rules. There are only certain ports you can enter and a very onerous vet examination requirement.

We have found that it was easier to land the dog in France and take it through the Eurotunnel to the UK. The organisation here is pretty slick and the paperwork somewhat easier, but it is a pain that you then have to organise a car pickup on the French side.

When will the UK 'really' join the EU, not just this halfway? 100 years?

 

[nelly1]

One of the advantages of being an island, although we seem to have forgotten that.

Or we could just agree that Mad Dogs ARE Englishmen, or vice versa - which will be the case if we allow rabies (& a shed load of other nasties) into our environs.

Ref. Grehan (isn't that what tables are for??), precisely that, treatment must be within 48 hours BUT NOT WITHIN 24hrs of - but note - INTENDED departure for UK. So no panic if delayed, in theory.

Imagine if matey boy had got (excuse the English) his 'rescued' puppy all the way from Marakesh, via Gib/Spain/Dordogne to sunny Sussex a couple of years back before it flipped it's rabid lid.

Very small island, very large carnivore (& other susceptible) population, no need for a fan to spread the proverbial.

As for the EU....... Woof.

 

[nelly1]

PS onerous vet examination? Yes, a quick glance, maybe (should be) temperature, squirt of Frontline, stab of Droncit/chuck down of Drontal, scribble in a Passport. Oh, forgot, check microchip. Yes, exhaustive.

 

[maxi77]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the advantages of being an island, although we seem to have forgotten that.

Or we could just agree that Mad Dogs ARE Englishmen, or vice versa - which will be the case if we allow rabies (& a shed load of other nasties) into our environs.

Ref. Grehan (isn't that what tables are for??), precisely that, treatment must be within 48 hours BUT NOT WITHIN 24hrs of - but note - INTENDED departure for UK. So no panic if delayed, in theory.

Imagine if matey boy had got (excuse the English) his 'rescued' puppy all the way from Marakesh, via Gib/Spain/Dordogne to sunny Sussex a couple of years back before it flipped it's rabid lid.

Very small island, very large carnivore (& other susceptible) population, no need for a fan to spread the proverbial.

As for the EU....... Woof.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry for your paranoia, but the rules in the UK are tyoical civil serpent panic stuff intended to make life as difficult for us, and ensure they can never be blaimed, unless of course they lose all our personal data.

If an aninmal has a pet passport it has met all the rules so why do we add wholy uneccessary bits on, especially the retriction on ports and carriers.

 

[LadyJessie]

The 'onerous' part of the vet examination is that you have to have it done within 48 hrs of arriving at a UK port. That is not always easy when travelling. But the examination itself? Yes, it is a laugh. So I fully agree with the sentiment that this is just silly civil servants stuff that that has nothing to do with UK health. And it has nothing to do with rabies, this is a 'tick' protection that was never seen as a problem before the UK Pet Passport was introduced.

Rabies went away as a threat when vaccination was introduced; so someone had to come up with another threat to justify the bureaucracy. Ergo: the tick is now the new threat to UK health. What nonsense and a serious waste of time for pet owners travelling across the channel.

 

[Liz_I]

Have been watching this thread with interest. My 'job' was exporting animals from the UK over 10+years. Working for the third largest quarantine facility in the country. Interpretation by the veterinary profession was a little hit & miss. They, of course, had many years of academic study however it didn't make them 'au fait' with regulations. The UK has been, by virtue of being an island, rabies free and wish to keep it that way. There are many vociforous arguments about the rules & regs. At the end of the day if Rabies ocurs within the UK then all animals (wild) would be destroyed. The 'domestic' population of dogs & cats would be severally restricted. This is a fact. So abide by the rules, it's not onerous the only downside is the landing of animals by personal transport, i.e. boats.
We no longer live in the UK and do have 3 'pets' I for one think it is a small price to pay to ensure we can travel with them back to the UK, if necessary, without the need for quarantine.
Try taking you pets to NZ or Australia you will find the rules & regs much more difficult.
Summary for pets returning to the UK;
1) microchip
2) Rabies vaccination
3) one month later a blood test to determine antibodies for rabies.
4) 6 months after the date of the blood test, should this have the correct antibody result. The animal is 'legal'
5) Not less than 24 hours or more than 48 hours before embarkation your pet must be treated for tick & tapeworm by an authorized veterinarian.

As long as the Rabies vaccination is kept in date, i.e. no more than 364 days after the last vaccination, there is no need for further blood tests. If the animal is taken outside the EU or approved countries then the whole testing regime has to start again.

The animal must travel by authorized carrier and not on your vessel.

One must realize that this situation benefits the veterinary profession. It also benefits those who wish to take their pets abroad. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[LadyJessie]

Mr Van Dog: I fully support the requirements for rabies vaccination of all pets. Those are very sensible and is the standard that has been maintained on the continent for the last 20 odd years. The UK came late to this vaccination game as they relied too long on the somewhat medieval method of quarantine instead. The UK has now finally joined the continental standards and the rabies vaccination rules of the UK Pet Passport is identical to the EU Pet Passport rules. No problems there. It makes a lot of sense.

What I find a problem with the UK rules is that they have these new extra 'Gold Plated' rules tacked on relating to 'ticks and tapeworms' and its requirements for a vet test of those. That was never an issue in the 'old quarantine' regime. Add the onerous requirement of having a very limited port entry and I hope you see my problem: A lot of new obstacles thrown up with very little benefit defined. This is no longer a rabies problem; it is a petty bureaucratic problem that brings little if any benefit to the health of people or animals in the UK.

 

[maxi77]

The situation with Rabies is that it is on the decline, several European countries are now considered free of rabies by WHO and the frontier is being pushed back. We are no longer in the situation where rabies was closing in on the UK like an invading army, any all of the rabies free European countries other than us have much more relaxed controls, so perhaps the suggestion of over reaction is appropriate. Ticks and worms are endemic in the UK so why do we not have compulsory treatment for all animals in the UK not just those coming in. Equally the limitation on routes into the country seems pretty pointless, if non approved routes are not monitored then they are open to abuse, and equally if they are monitored to prevent abuse then why not let them actually be used.

As I suggested earlier civil serpent job creation seems to be the main reason rather than genuine animal welfare.

 

[LadyJessie]

Totally agree, maxi77. We might be seen to be quibbling a small point when complaining about these nonsense onerous checks, but I think it is a very serious point. If the rules are too onerous for no good reason (as in this case) there is a large risk that some people will think 's*d it!' and disregard the whole pet passport scheme altogether. It is easy to do. Then you can find yourself in the paradoxical situation when the rabies infection risk will actually be higher than if you had only implemented sensible, easy to follow rules; like the EU standard Pet Passport scheme.

Imho, it is time for the UK to skip its' "special regime" Pet Passport and implement the EU version. The rabies vaccination requirements are identical already, so it is really easy to do. You will do it eventually anyway (you always do) so why wait?

 

[Liz_I]

'What I find a problem with the UK rules is that they have these new extra 'Gold Plated' rules tacked on relating to 'ticks and tapeworms' and its requirements for a vet test of those. That was never an issue in the 'old quarantine' regime'

Incorrect I'm afraid. All dogs & cats entering quarantine undergo a veterinary examination along with tick & tapeworm treatment.

I assume that all responsible pet owners in the UK treat their pets with worming preparations and flea & tick treatment at least twice a year.

Whilst I agree that not being able to carry your pet by your own vessel is a pain, we hope that this situation may change. If you look at all the Rabies free countries around the world they are mostly islands!

Aust & NZ have much more stringent import restrictions than the UK.

Unfortunately the question of quarantine and the ensuing rules & regs will always bring with it argument, however, if you wish to take your pet abroad then, unfortunately, you must abide by the rules.

 

[zefender]

[ QUOTE ]
'I assume that all responsible pet owners in the UK treat their pets with worming preparations and flea & tick treatment at least twice a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your argument falls by your use of the words 'assume' and 'responsible'

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'I assume that all responsible pet owners in the UK treat their pets with worming preparations and flea & tick treatment at least twice a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your argument falls by your use of the words 'assume' and 'responsible'

[/ QUOTE ]
I have two dogs and consider myself very responsible - certainly my dogs receive every care they need and you wouldn't believe the vets fees I have paid out in the last few years - but I have never wormed or flea'd them unnecessarily.

They are done as pups and after that as needed. I can certainly identify flea infestation, ticks and worms and I will medicate as necessary but I certainly wouldn't administer any medication without cause.

Routine preventative medication goes back to when dogs roamed free, exposed to whatever, and the only ones that survived were the ones that learnt to dodge traffic.

 

[Liz_I]

'They are done as pups and after that as needed. I can certainly identify flea infestation, ticks and worms and I will medicate as necessary but I certainly wouldn't administer any medication without cause.'

Certainly hope you could recognize flea infestation! By that time your poor pooch would probably have an excema-like skin condition! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If you never excercise your pet anywhere other than paved streets then you'll be okay but dogs & cats can pick up ticks from their own garden the odd flea would also go unnoticed. I do not doubt that you love your pets and spend a fortune on vet fees but the fact remains that dogs and cats should be wormed and treated for ticks and fleas at the very least twice yearly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
...the fact remains that dogs and cats should be wormed and treated for ticks and fleas at the very least twice yearly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
If they haven't got fleas, ticks or worms it is unnecessary medication and cost, so the fact remains that there is no need to medicate non existant problems - it is an old attitude. If you do that to dogs twice a year regardless, by the same argument you should do all the people in the household as well!

 

[maxi77]

[ QUOTE ]


Whilst I agree that not being able to carry your pet by your own vessel is a pain, we hope that this situation may change. If you look at all the Rabies free countries around the world they are mostly islands!

Unfortunately the question of quarantine and the ensuing rules & regs will always bring with it argument, however, if you wish to take your pet abroad then, unfortunately, you must abide by the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly it is not only islands that are rabies free, according to WHO there are now several continental Europe countries that are deemed rabies free, and the number is rising, that is whilst exercising the type of pet movement we are asking for, so perhaps the risk is not quite as high as you would try to have us believe. The old attitudes were valid when rabies moved ever closer each year towards the channel ports, but it is now receding, thus proving the measure that are being taken do work.

Of course we need to abide by the rules, but when we see the rules are not apparently based on need, then we have a democratic right to bitch about them, it's called free speech.

A further danger of over enthusiastic regulation which aparently has noreal purpose is that it actually makes the important parts less important and thus less effective, thus actually creating even more danger.

 

[Liz_I]

Which countries are you referring to??
Intresting concept.... Norway & Sweden have always had quite stringent import regulations. I am quite intrigued by Greece being 'Rabies free' The islands probably but the mainland is another matter. Turkey has a major problem. The 'picture' of rabies incidences funneling down from the NE was, several years ago, quite alarming. The Rabies problem is, I agree, quite hyped - however - it's something that should be recognised and not ignored.
In the UK we have a variety of indiginous wildlife and it would be a travisty if it is destroyed because a few people want to 'buck' the system.
I do know there is a lot of 'hype'. However the risk maybe very small but it is a small price to pay to keep the UK free. The OP asked about Landing dogs in France, France has become more stringent. There have been a few rabies probs with animals imported 'illegally' from North Africa.

Sadly many people, who are not well informed, will continue to preach - we are free - why can't we have free movement of animals - & it costs so much money etc etc. they are the bleaters IMHO. IF you want to take your pet abroad from the UK then, as I said before, abide by the rules. If you can't afford it, or, don't agree, then stay at home!

If you want to challenge this then please do some research. Don't just moan about rules & regs for the sake of it. BTW it's illegal to import drugs, illegal immigrants & various other things. Should we be in favour of this to 'buck' the system? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[LadyJessie]

[ QUOTE ]
In the UK we have a variety of indiginous wildlife and it would be a travisty if it is destroyed because a few people want to 'buck' the system. I do know there is a lot of 'hype'.

[/ QUOTE ]I think this is a very good example of the paranoia that exists on this issue and that distorts sensible measures.

Firstly; 'all wildlife' would not necessarily be 'destroyed' if you against all odds happened to find an odd rabies infected animal on your shores. That is paranoia. Many continental countries has had rabies present for many years and their wildlife has not been 'destroyed'. Do you see central Europe devoid of wildlife? I did not think so. Naturally, the local authorities take action and that has been very effective as most western European countries are now rabies free. Your notion would only be valid if you thought that UK authorities would just sit back and watch rabies spread. Is that your view of the UK government capabilities? Well, that is then another problem not really related to rabies, is it?

Secondly; you are surely an example of the 'hype' raised around this issue of sensible movement of pets around Europe. What is the problem if they are all certified to be rabies vaccinated? What is your problem really, apart from paranoia?

I hope you can understand that continental Europeans really have a problem with this particular animal movement paranoia; especially given that the most recent serious threats to human and animal health have not been rabies, but threats that originated in the UK: mad cow and foot/mouth disease. I think you have lost your desired position on the high pedestal of 'island invisibility'. It is time to come down and be sensible. The UK Pet Passport is not, the EU Pet Passport is sensible and gives imho a superior protection to rabies exposure.