Lagoon 52 thoughts/comments

[Third mate]

Having spent time on one this models smaller sister was very impressed with the cruising performance of the set back main which seems to have made a dramatic improvement in sailing ability,

I am now overwhelmed with the urge to purchase a 52.

Don't want this to turn into a cat verses mono as I have happy memories of mono's both on the east coast and transat, but life at 20 degrees is a no no for SWMBO.

The most important thing is that this will be a family cruising machine kept well away from mud plugging under grey skies off the east coast of England. Blue sky and sunshine only


regards

Andy

 

[RichardS]

Having spent time on one this models smaller sister was very impressed with the cruising performance of the set back main which seems to have made a dramatic improvement in sailing ability,

I am now overwhelmed with the urge to purchase a 52.

Don't want this to turn into a cat verses mono as I have happy memories of mono's both on the east coast and transat, but life at 20 degrees is a no no for SWMBO.

The most important thing is that this will be a family cruising machine kept well away from mud plugging under grey skies off the east coast of England. Blue sky and sunshine only


regards

Andy

Excellent boats if you like cats but to meet your final requirement you will have to base it in the Med. We chose Croatia rather than Greece so we can drive down easily with all the gear and have even done a "long weekend" once but that is not a recommendation. The main issue is the cost of marina berthing with a 50% - 100% surcharge but you can negotiate for early payment etc. It's best to get used to anchoring when out and about ...... but that is a strong point for cats of course.

The 52 would be a very large boat for 2 people to handle but in most situations it is much easier than a monohull. There are many large cats in the Med and we share our pontoon with a Lagoon 46 which looks massive compared to our 40. The Caribbean now is, I would say, mostly cats for charter but the Med is still mostly monohulls although, even in the 8 years we have been there, the balance is changing and it's probably 20% or 30% cats now which suggests that people are voting with their wallets. I doubt whether the UK or northern waters generally will see the same trend which is presumably a reflection of the weather and the type of sailing.

The vast majority of travel hoists will struggle with a 52 foot cat so you will need to bear in mind that you may have a day's sail from your preferred base to get to a hoist which can lift you out for maintenance and/or antifouling so I would definitely go for Coppercoat on such a boat as you can probably get the anodes changed by a diver but not antifouling.

Richard

PS I agree about SWMBOs. We sail along whilst enjoying our family lunch or dinner with plates and wine glasses etc all out on the table. We charted monohulls for years but she would never go back.

PPS Just checked and in my marina the annual mooring fee would be Euro 20,000.

 

[Jamesuk]

lovely boat let us have the specs on a page and we will all put in our advice to make sure you get the boat you can have we all want ;-);-) You can have a ybw dock party when you arrive in the med ...I'd fly out and go

 

[geem]

My main concern would be quality. We have a friend with a Lagoon 620. He has had so many issues he is selling it. We met a couple who bought a 52 to do the World ARC. They crossed the pond and put the boat up for sail. So many issues they didn't want to carry on. Sorry to put a dampener on Lagoons. I think the smaller ones are better.

 

[Jamesuk]

My main concern would be quality. We have a friend with a Lagoon 620. He has had so many issues he is selling it. We met a couple who bought a 52 to do the World ARC. They crossed the pond and put the boat up for sail. So many issues they didn't want to carry on. Sorry to put a dampener on Lagoons. I think the smaller ones are better.

What are the problems?

 

[geem]

What are the problems?

On the 620 the headlining panels are held up with Velcro. In bumpy weather the fall off. It's like some sort of game to work out which one came from where! There are a lot of them. The front windows popped out whilst sailing. There are just the funny ones.
The guys we know with the 52 don't wish us to discuss details as they were selling the boat. They didn't want people to know how bad it was!

 

[Third mate]

On the 620 the headlining panels are held up with Velcro. In bumpy weather the fall off. It's like some sort of game to work out which one came from where! There are a lot of them. The front windows popped out whilst sailing. There are just the funny ones.
The guys we know with the 52 don't wish us to discuss details as they were selling the boat. They didn't want people to know how bad it was!

geem, no disrespect but keeping quiet as they are selling is the last thing they should do. If there are major issue's with either the design or build quality, hiding them to sell the boat on is at the very least unethical and at worst plain dishonest.
Did they take up these problems with lagoon or their selling agent ??

 

[bigwow]

On the 620 the headlining panels are held up with Velcro. In bumpy weather the fall off. It's like some sort of game to work out which one came from where! There are a lot of them. The front windows popped out whilst sailing. There are just the funny ones.
The guys we know with the 52 don't wish us to discuss details as they were selling the boat. They didn't want people to know how bad it was!

If it's Velcro just replace it with Dual Lock, it's like Velcro on steroids and would just be a direct replacement, that one would be an easy fix.

 

[Third mate]

lovely boat let us have the specs on a page and we will all put in our advice to make sure you get the boat you can have we all want ;-);-) You can have a ybw dock party when you arrive in the med ...I'd fly out and go

Spec to follow but large Cava holder is top of list

 

[Jamesuk]

On the 620 the headlining panels are held up with Velcro. In bumpy weather the fall off. It's like some sort of game to work out which one came from where! There are a lot of them. The front windows popped out whilst sailing. There are just the funny ones.
The guys we know with the 52 don't wish us to discuss details as they were selling the boat. They didn't want people to know how bad it was!

I agree that build quality and leaks are often the biggest problems associated with boats. but the ones you mentioned are easy to correct. Personally I believe these boats are better shipped across the Atlantic, Used in coastal regions the Med/Caribbean. I would not recommend sailing them across an ocean because they are not designed to be that boat. They will sail the ocean but you may get things like the bar bouncing up (yes the one filled with booze and a fridge ) Privilege 65 delivery. After seeing that I had a stiff drink, still did nothing for the jumping bar. Although the 50 inch TV stayed in place.

Get the 1 year gruelling test cover agreement - you buy the boat and they after delivery allow you to use the boat for 1 year to sort out all the niggles the boat clearly needs to be returned to the yard after each test.

 

[Seven Spades]

Interesting thread. I often think about cats for an extended cruise but to buy one is like starting from scratch. Few are attractive but they are all different and I have no idea which are the good brands and which are no. With a mono it is easy to know the solidly built boats, but with a cat do the same rules apply? I think not knowing anything after winning the lottery I would plump for a Discovery 50. But in all seriousness there are a lot of quite unfamiliar names out there and few places here to read about them. Why doesn't YBW have a CAT page, we have scuttlebutt, PBO and the lounge why not a Cat page as well?

 

[Tranona]

There is already a specialised mag www.multihulls-world.com but our mags do review them from time to time. There is a long test of the latest Lagoon 42 in this month's Sailing Today.

Big cats though are still very much a minority interest in the UK (at least for use in our waters) as they are targeted at warm climates and particularly where marine berths are not the norm.

 

[RichardS]

Interesting thread. I often think about cats for an extended cruise but to buy one is like starting from scratch. Few are attractive but they are all different and I have no idea which are the good brands and which are no. With a mono it is easy to know the solidly built boats, but with a cat do the same rules apply? I think not knowing anything after winning the lottery I would plump for a Discovery 50. But in all seriousness there are a lot of quite unfamiliar names out there and few places here to read about them. Why doesn't YBW have a CAT page, we have scuttlebutt, PBO and the lounge why not a Cat page as well?

My cat was built by Robertson and Caine in Cape Town. I think they and Lagoon are the two largest builders in the world, mainly because of their links with the charter market in both cases. I don't know about Lagoon but all R & C sailing cats are present in every charter market - Caribbean, Far East, Indian Ocean and the Med - and they have all been sailed from Cape Town and, AFAIK, only one, and sadly its crew, has been lost earlier this year. That doesn't mean that they are without faults, but all the ancillary equipment is from top quality suppliers which is a good sign.

Richard

 

[E39mad]

I would look at Catana if wanting to do some ocean passages - to be fair to Lagoon and their like, similar to the Beneteau Oceanis range they are built for the charter markets and not extended ocean cruising. Not saying they are not capable, just that some designs and build quality are better for that task.

 

[Garold]

I don't know anyone who has bought a new boat and not had a snagging list after the first few months. So no one should judge Lagoons too harshly. They are jolly good value for money.

I think that the important mechanical bits like masts, engines, winches, electrical pumps, and electronics, they use the same brands as many other manufacturers.

They produce enough boats to test their designs. I'm not sure that it's wise to buy early hull numbers of any brands including Lagoons.

And personally, I've had a Lagoon 380 and a Lagoon 400, and they were fine. Few bits of warranty issues but mainly with after market electronics and extras.

But if you are coming from monohulls, I think you should charter a boat to check that you are happy with the sailing and the motion of a catamaran. It doesn't suit everyone. I tried it, and tried it again, and now we are back to a monohull.

For resale, we went for one of the bigger cat manufacturers because there seems to be a market for their products.

Garold

 

[Neeves]

Our cat is 38' and almost as small as you can get and cruise. I've sailed on bigger cats upto 52' and looked at lots. The size of yacht you are talking about is huge. Not, in my view, really designed to be sailed short handed. My concern with something that large is handling in restricted places, like fuel docks - as the only safe access is off the transom - or you need to depend on their being someone on every pontoon to take lines. I know this is a similar problem on large monohulls but cats add an extra dimension because of their beam.

I'm assuming something of that size will have mechanical aids for handling sails - as without electric winches etc you would need a crew of gorillas. As mentioned these yachts, like the Leopard, are built for the charter market and basically what you see is what you get. The opportunity for customisation is very limited so if you want to liveaboard there might be better choices

Much depends on what you want to achieve - if you want to cross oceans, I think there are plenty of better choices, if you want a party or liveaboard yacht in the Med or Caribbean, don't need personalisation (and are happy to have paid crew move them from A to B)- I think they are an ideal choice.

But they are a proven design, a proven manufacturer, there are a few of them on the water and they do not have a reputation of massive problems. As mentioned all new yachts have problems, some are simply problems perceived as a result of personal preferences. I'd agree with the idea of chartering first - especially as its a pretty significant investment.

A yacht that size is a very personal decision (for example I think they are ugly to look at from the outside, but lovely if you are on the inside looking out) and you are not going to get that much feed back - they are hardly cheap

Chartering for week is the sensible answer to your question.

Jonathan

 

[Third mate]

Many thanks for the constructive feed back (especially on marina cost's.. ouch !!!)

I now believe I am being a tad over ambitious with the 52, there were a number of reasons for my initial choice mainly around living space and extra equipment spec's.

Those of you who are familiar with Lagoon realise the basic offering is aimed at the charter market but they do offer a number of upgrades that enable prospective owners a chance to add that individual touch to their craft. (What the hell is a comfort pack !!!).

Based on the above we have decided to look again at the model range and at the 450F 4 cabin in particular.

Very rough tech spec..

Upgrade sail spec (to include Code 0 and/or kite)
Self tacking jib if possible
watermaker at least 175 lph as in med capacity reduced.
Increase in fuel capacity
Generator (I really dislike solar panels)
Aircon
Raymarine not B&G nav gear
Helm and engine controls at nav station in main cabin
Washer/dryer
Dishwasher
Dive compressor

Not all the above may be possible but if you don't ask you don't get.

Andy

p.s. Any other thoughts on spec much appreciated

Would really like a hydraulic Hi/Lo platform for tender storage, davits can be a pain in the whatsit

 

[RichardS]

I do agree that the smaller boat is a better option on balance unless you intend never to move anywhere.

I'm not sure what sail configuration comes as standard but I would certainly add electric mainsail deployment.

Parasailors work very well on cats and easier to handle than a conventional kite I believe. I've not seen a self-tacker on a cat but can you use a large overlapping in the that configuration as you need plenty of sail area to drive big cruising cats.

I'm not sure why one would dislike solar panels but it's your boat.

As for the rest, since space is not at a premium and if you intend to liveaboard for much of the year and you can afford both the capital outlay and the maintenance costs ...... then why not?

Richard

 

[Neeves]

I have to ask - what is the fascination with Lagoon, what is wrong with Leopard, Catana, Bavaria, FP etc etc.

I'm not suggesting the Lagoon is not good - but having swapped, quite quickly from a 52 to a 45 - why not other builders?

Just interested.

Jonathan

 

[Garold]

Many thanks for the constructive feed back (especially on marina cost's.. ouch !!!)

I now believe I am being a tad over ambitious with the 52, there were a number of reasons for my initial choice mainly around living space and extra equipment spec's.

Those of you who are familiar with Lagoon realise the basic offering is aimed at the charter market but they do offer a number of upgrades that enable prospective owners a chance to add that individual touch to their craft. (What the hell is a comfort pack !!!).

Based on the above we have decided to look again at the model range and at the 450F 4 cabin in particular.

Very rough tech spec..

Upgrade sail spec (to include Code 0 and/or kite)
Self tacking jib if possible
watermaker at least 175 lph as in med capacity reduced.
Increase in fuel capacity
Generator (I really dislike solar panels)
Aircon
Raymarine not B&G nav gear
Helm and engine controls at nav station in main cabin
Washer/dryer
Dishwasher
Dive compressor

Not all the above may be possible but if you don't ask you don't get.

Andy

p.s. Any other thoughts on spec much appreciated

Would really like a hydraulic Hi/Lo platform for tender storage, davits can be a pain in the whatsit

Since the price initially quoted on most Lagoon cats includes very little, it is easy to spec the boat as you want, but probably having most of the items you want that are not on the factory spec list, dealer fitted.

With our L380, we ordered it as a pretty basic boat and had the dealer & aftermarket suppliers fit kit. With our L400 we had the basic boat from the dealer and had most options fitted by aftermarket people. With our latest Beneteau sailboat, we had most of the electronics no heating factory fitted, but the electrics (genny, inverter, extra batteries etc) and canopies (spray hood, cockpit canopy, wheel covers etc) done by aftermarket people.

So, I think we've tried most options. On reflection, I think that if they do something that you are happy with (spec, design, and price) having it done at the factory seems a good idea. And if they don't do it, most spec changes can be accommodated after delivery to the dealer (eg if you want Raymarine or a particular design of air con).

You'll need a decent sized genny to power the aircon on a large Lagoon.

Lagoon has some odd names like Comfort Pack which may seem optional but sometimes have things like curtains in them so read the spec carefully.

Garold

Out of interest, where will you be sailing your new Lagoon? And where do you think that you may be purchasing?