andygc
Well-Known Member
Yes, possibly because the 2nd reef line is also tight. I'd have thought the first thing to do, before anything else, is to make sure all reefing lines are slack.
Lack of tension in tack of mainsail
- Thread starter KompetentKrew
- Start date
Yes, possibly because the 2nd reef line is also tight. I'd have thought the first thing to do, before anything else, is to make sure all reefing lines are slack.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
The over tight reef 1 is definitely causing part of the problem, as the sag in the luff is much more pronounced below it than it is above it. So definitely needs easing (try it with six inches slack to be sure).
And as others have said, perhaps reef 2 line is over tight, or kicker and/or mainsheet left tight when hoisting.
Once these are sorted, fitting a simple block and tackle on the Cunningham would be a good idea.
But it is important to see the shape of the full sail. Horizontal creases don’t slow a boat down, if the sail shape is correct - have a look at many Olympic dinghy classes which often have lots of horizontal creases in certain wind conditions (to get absolute maximum area available in light winds). But sail curvature too far back upwind causes excess heeling and drag so is very slow - hence freeing the reef lines and fitting/using a cunningham control could be very beneficial to maintain sail shape in a breeze upwind.
langstonelayabout
Well-Known Member
When I raced hard my 3 season old sails were absolutely ‘naughty word here-ed’ and you would have been welcome to them.
prv
Well-Known Member
It's not an issue in itself, the point is that it might be making the effective luff of the sail just long enough for the halyard to "bottom out" in the sheave at the masthead. We don't know since the photos don't show the whole sail.
Pete
RJJ
Well-Known Member
I agree with flaming. That tack cutout is designed that way, meant to be like that, there's no particular reason it directly affects luff tension.
Otherwise lots of good suggestions and I would be interested to know what works! My money is on too much leech tension while hoisting due to too much kicker/mainsheet/reefing pennant tension.
Otherwise lots of good suggestions and I would be interested to know what works! My money is on too much leech tension while hoisting due to too much kicker/mainsheet/reefing pennant tension.
wilkinsonsails
Well-Known Member
If you have luff tension and a jammer not slipping. Ease luff reef pennant .
It looks to me as if Tack cut away is not correct .
Remove last three slides from mast . Let the tack eye sit further aft, on a lashing if necessary. It Should sit around 45 degrees away from bearing point.
Set the sail and see if creases go away ..if they ,do measure the slide offset and refit the slides at correct span..
It looks to me as if Tack cut away is not correct .
Remove last three slides from mast . Let the tack eye sit further aft, on a lashing if necessary. It Should sit around 45 degrees away from bearing point.
Set the sail and see if creases go away ..if they ,do measure the slide offset and refit the slides at correct span..
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
Many excellent replies here - plenty for me to be going along with, so hopefully I'll do better under sail tomorrow.
Just to address flaming's words above, you should never assume such a thing of me. I've only been sailing a year and it's my first boat (at 40', I would accept the argument that it's too big for me, but that's not a constructive argument to have now).
Many thanks, gentlefolks, I do appreciate all the help.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Take the shackle off the head of the sail. Double the halyard over & push a loop through the eye in the head of the sail.
Take the free end of the halyard & pass it through the loop so that the loop is trapped in the eye. tie an overhand knot in the end of the halyard as a stopper .
That will get you another inch or so height at the head of the sail when hoisting.
then, as others have said, fasten the tack tight down to the gooseneck.
Total, with luck, will give you about 3 inches of extra stretch.
Take the free end of the halyard & pass it through the loop so that the loop is trapped in the eye. tie an overhand knot in the end of the halyard as a stopper .
That will get you another inch or so height at the head of the sail when hoisting.
then, as others have said, fasten the tack tight down to the gooseneck.
Total, with luck, will give you about 3 inches of extra stretch.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Good plan. If possible use a camera with telephoto lens and, of safe to do so, take a zoomed in photo of the masthead from 3-4 boat lengths away to see where the headboard is relative to the mast sheave.
Also take a photo underway upwind, looking upwards from just behind the mast.
Have a good sail.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
How is the sail attached at the top? I found that scrapping the bowline/shackle arrangement and tying the halyard on directly enabled a higher hoist and eliminated wrinkles. Use a halyard knot.
Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
Great thread, thank you one and all for many ideas to improve my mainsail (which is hoisting a bit baggy near the bottom) and I have to work very hard to get the headboard up to the "black band".
Four questions, if you please:-
1 Would replacing with a wire halyard*, with plaited tail reduce any stretch in my lovely thick, (easy to handle) full length rope halyard?
2. If so, does the wire unduly wear the sheeve?
3. What lube to use? (I've bee using a silicone spray when the mast is down) but friction within the slot may be my current enemy)
4. How to get the lube into the whole length of the slot with the mast up?
I'm sure the answer to the last one could be arrived at by a do-do with a cold - but I'd be grateful for advice from those who have done it!
My mainsail has had five years use, hardly any this last year and was setting well until last year.
TIA
* I have a little used wire/rope tail which I could swap back if it would solve the problem
Four questions, if you please:-
1 Would replacing with a wire halyard*, with plaited tail reduce any stretch in my lovely thick, (easy to handle) full length rope halyard?
2. If so, does the wire unduly wear the sheeve?
3. What lube to use? (I've bee using a silicone spray when the mast is down) but friction within the slot may be my current enemy)
4. How to get the lube into the whole length of the slot with the mast up?
I'm sure the answer to the last one could be arrived at by a do-do with a cold - but I'd be grateful for advice from those who have done it!
My mainsail has had five years use, hardly any this last year and was setting well until last year.
TIA
* I have a little used wire/rope tail which I could swap back if it would solve the problem
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I do not see how changing the halyard type will make any difference unless you are saying that the baggyness is happening whilst sailing because the halyard is stretching. When I changed to laminate sails I could see large creases appear in the sail as the halyard stretched & shrank. This was solved by changing to dynema.
As for lube in the mast track, I see no point, other than making it easier to pull the sail up. All you have to do is head up to wind & let the sail flog for a minute or two with the vang & mainsheet eased, ( just tacking is usually enough) & the spring in the sail luff should equalise the sail after a while. That assumes that the reef lines allow it to do so, of course.
From the pictures, I still suspect that the head could go up a bit ( even though I cannot see it) & the tack can come down a bit.
Please drop the sail & show us how it is attached, so we can establish how much hoist is wasted in the attachment.
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Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
Daydream Believer.
I think you have confused me with the OP.
But thanks for the remark re halyard type. :encouragement:
Robert
I think you have confused me with the OP.
But thanks for the remark re halyard type. :encouragement:
Robert
doug748
Well-Known Member
1) It could well help. Wire and rope sheaves are different, it is possible the new fat rope is binding in the original sheave and contributing to the problem. You will see that a wire sheave has a pronounced Vee shape rather than a round.
2) No they are designed for it.
3) I use silicone now and again seems ok.
4) I spray it onto the sail slugs and run them up and down a couple of times. It has been said that you can spray a bit of foam or rag and lead it up and down the slot on a halyard but I have never tried it.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Apologies- missed that you had nipped into the thread:ambivalence:
flaming
Well-Known Member
I don't buy the theory that the halyard is not going high enough. If that was so I think the sagginess in the luff would be more even, not concentrated at the bottom as we see.
The more I think about this, the more I am sure that this is simply an issue of too much friction in the sliders. Especially if the winding of tension that the OP talked about wasn't done with the boat head to wind, but with the sail full of wind.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
If you get the sail further up the mast there will be more room at the bottom to tension at the tack. Friction in the sliders is not a problem once the sail has flogged free into the wind for a couple of minutes to allow the tension in the sail to even out. I do not believe that every slider has jammed altogether at one point.
Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
IIRC the sheave is round - but the boat came with a part wire/part halyard.
The guy who sold it to me was certainly no bodger or short-cut taker.
Interesting point. I'd rather keep my easy-to-handle greater diam. rope, for that reason
I have plenty of silicone, so I'll try that, again. Onto a rag then hoist it, and onto the sail slugs
I wonder if standing idle from late May to now might be a contributing factor with grime, weather etc.?
Thank you
pagoda
Well-Known Member
Friction could well be an issue preventing a full hoist- leading to a slack luff . Also possible is the leech going tight before the luff on hoisting , if the mainsheet is not quite free or there is some kicker tension which should not be present when hoisting?
Free both, do a full hoist, head to wind and report back. (Do you have a masthead mark for checking your hoist? or one on the halyard coming through the jammer?)
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
*cough* *cough*
Yes, I shall be checking all the simple things next time I get the sails up fully.
Had lovely sail shape today, but with one reef in.
