Labour charge for replacing two seacocks.

  • Thread starter Thread starter XDC
  • Start date Start date
XDC said:
It really didn’t seem necessary to get a quote.

I had quotes prior to the other jobs they did for me and all seemed reasonable and the work was first rate.

The boat was in their yard, the engineer was already working on my boat, what could go wrong?:ambivalence:
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I’m guessing those photos are ‘after’ and if so, have you got pics from before? In the first instance you should in writing (before payment if no relaunch complications) ask for a written justification of the charge. Also, did you sign anything in advance and if so what? It might also be worth asking for info from others (inc on here) of costs associated with other similar jobs.

The yard may negotiate, but the degree is likely to be dependent on how serious they perceive you to be, and the steps they figure you’ll take if the problem is not settled.

If a good yard, you’ll get an explanation and subject to that, possibility a discount. If scheisters you’ll have to push somewhat harder.
 
XDC said:
Thanks all.

Imagine my surprise when I was presented with a labour bill of £520.80.

I wish that I could post the picture. You would be able to see the ease of access and there was no corrosion or leaks evident.

The only reason I had them changed was both had seized apparently due to me spraying from the outside with WD40. This swells the delrin (?) but ptfe spray would have been fine.

Total bill close to £1000 including a length of pipe :nonchalance:

Christmas is cancelled.
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Looks like he charged a days labour at about £65 an hour. Complete rip off. No way it should take that long. And why replace the through hulls and not just the seacocks?
 
I’ve just had 3 through hulls replaced. All the pipes replaced and they were all in the worst place possible with almost no access and a miserable job which I didn’t want to do.

Brilliant job done in 3 days and a bill of 400 quid I think.

I think you were over charged.
 
dom said:
I’m guessing those photos are ‘after’ and if so, have you got pics from before? In the first instance you should in writing (before payment if no relaunch complications) ask for a written justification of the charge. Also, did you sign anything in advance and if so what? It might also be worth asking for info from others (inc on here) of costs associated with other similar jobs.

The yard may negotiate, but the degree is likely to be dependent on how serious they perceive you to be, and the steps they figure you’ll take if the problem is not settled.

If a good yard, you’ll get an explanation and subject to that, possibility a discount. If scheisters you’ll have to push somewhat harder.
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The problem Dom is it sound as if the boat is on the hard in their yard , so in some ways they got him be the googles .
I would ask them for a hour to hour brake down but make sure you let them know your not haven't any of it .
 
Certainly looks excessive. This looks like a modern boat, reasonably good access, probably from-new brass seacocks, in which case a good idea to also change the through-hulls and hose tails. Did similar myself a few years ago, changed four in an afternoon with more awkward access, including two drives to and from supplier five miles away and once a mile home to collect angle grinder. After a brief struggle to undo first one, took angle grinder to outside of eack through-hull. The longest part of each job was waiting for the kettle to boil to get new piping ends soft enough to go over hose tails fittings.
 
sailaboutvic said:
The problem Dom is it sound as if the boat is on the hard in their yard , so in some ways they got him be the googles .
I would ask them for a hour to hour brake down but make sure you let them know your not haven't any of it .
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Good point, hence I’d recommend payment while maintaining an evidential record confirming that the matter is under dispute. Ultimately a little tiff like this may require small-scale litigation/arbitration and at this level the clarity and coherence of the case is paramount.

I’d also recommend a chat with RYA if a member and possibly inform the insurance company.

All of these are simply opening moves; make them and options will soon become apparent.
 
dom said:
I’m guessing those photos are ‘after’ and if so, have you got pics from before? In the first instance you should in writing (before payment if no relaunch complications) ask for a written justification of the charge. Also, did you sign anything in advance and if so what? It might also be worth asking for info from others (inc on here) of costs associated with other similar jobs.

The yard may negotiate, but the degree is likely to be dependent on how serious they perceive you to be, and the steps they figure you’ll take if the problem is not settled.

If a good yard, you’ll get an explanation and subject to that, possibility a discount. If scheisters you’ll have to push somewhat harder.
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Yes Dom, they are the “after” pictures but the originals were totally sound. The engineer said something about no pinking or zinking and checked the others why he was at it. The only reason for the change was the swollen plastic from the WD40 had jammed them solid. No, nothing signed, it was just a straight forward conversation with the (trusted) engineer who said they could get the new seacocks delivered the next day and fitted very soon after as he was already onboard. There was no reason to be suspicious. This is a very well known boatyard and as I have already said, the quotes for previous jobs seemed fair and the actual invoices were close enough.

Spyro said:
Looks like he charged a days labour at about £65 an hour. Complete rip off. No way it should take that long. And why replace the through hulls and not just the seacocks?
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No idea. Hope to find out.

sailaboutvic said:
The problem Dom is it sound as if the boat is on the hard in their yard , so in some ways they got him be the googles .
I would ask them for a hour to hour brake down but make sure you let them know your not haven't any of it .
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Boat was in their yard and engineer was on my boat so it just seemed logical for them to do the job. As already mentioned there’s an email waiting for them when they get in tomorrow.

jwilson said:
Certainly looks excessive. This looks like a modern boat, reasonably good access, probably from-new brass seacocks, in which case a good idea to also change the through-hulls and hose tails. Did similar myself a few years ago, changed four in an afternoon with more awkward access, including two drives to and from supplier five miles away and once a mile home to collect angle grinder. After a brief struggle to undo first one, took angle grinder to outside of eack through-hull. The longest part of each job was waiting for the kettle to boil to get new piping ends soft enough to go over hose tails fittings.
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Yes a modern boat, easy access. I didn’t see the actual removal but he was waving around a heat gun/hair dryer to get the pipes off.

dom said:
Good point, hence I’d recommend payment while maintaining an evidential record that the matter is under dispute. Ultimately a little dispute like this may require small-scale litigation/arbitration and at this level the clarity and coherence of the case is paramount.

I’d also recommend a chat with RYA if member and possibly inform the insurance company.

All of these are simply opening moves; make them and options will soon become apparent.
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My first move is to wait for their response.

They have lumped everything onto one invoice, storage, launching, the work the engineer was doing plus the labour and parts cost.

I am happy to pay for everything else but can’t see a way of holding back just the labour part.

Hopefully tomorrow I’ll have a clearer picture of the labour time and hourly rate and take it from there.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
 
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XDC said:
My first move is to wait for their response.

They have lumped everything onto one invoice, storage, launching, the work the engineer was doing plus the labour and parts cost.

I am happy to pay for everything else but can’t see a way of holding back just the labour part.

Hopefully tomorrow I’ll have a clearer picture of the labour time and hourly rate and take it from there.
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Makes absolute sense to await their response at this stage.
 
XDC said:
I’d appreciate an idea of what you would would consider a reasonable south coast boatyard charge to replace the two seacocks you can see in the (hopefully) attached picture, plus replacing the outlet pipe which had to be simply routed and attached to the toilet.

No travel time involved, the engineer seems constantly on site and was already repairing another part of my boat when I found the seacocks were seized.

Many thanks.

Bk9tLSxFgFo


https://instagram.com/p/Bk9tLSxFgFo/
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I just had two replaced, labour was 6 hours for replacing the skin fittings and sea cocks.
 
Hadenough said:
You post this on the Practical Boat Owners section, except that you seem to pay for all of your maintanance. Added to which you commission work with no estimate / quotation. What do you expect?
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Poss shd have been posted on Scuttlebutt. But does it matter, esp for a newcomer?
 
I am always astounded by the length of time that mechanics in yards take to do small jobs. OK I appreciate that access can be difficult, but still.

I replaced four the sea cocks and through hulls on my old boat, in under two hours. First time I have done the job and not even the type of engineering I do.
 
Really sorry to see that you have been rather had. The "think you might have got the wrong job here" approach might work. Give them a chance to save face. Obviously never trust the scroats again.

Did a similar job myself in a afternoon. But it did need someone on the outside whilst I wellied the but on the inside. Did mean the total chance of picking up a suitably huge spanner at a nearby boot sale.

Good luck and make them believe you will go all the way on this. They might be in doubtful waters if they refuse to put you back in the water because of this bit of the total bill.
 
I don't know if it was excessive or not, because i don't know what issues they had to deal with, how long the job took or how much the yard charge per hour. If it was a simple, routine job, it seems excessive. If there were problems, maybe not. The OP has not old us any details of the bill, yet a few on here are ready to start crying "rip off" and calling people "scroats". Might be an idea to wait and see what the actual bill consists of and what the hourly rate is, plus see what the yard has to say :confused:
 
XDC said:
Paul, the labour was £520.80.
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I saw that, but with respect, that doesn't tell us much. It doesn't tell us how long the job took, how much they charge per hour or if there were any unexpected problems.

I hate rip-off merchants as much as the next person, they give us all a bad name. I hear a lot of stories of people/companies overcharging, i was talking to someone a couple of days ago who was charged £600 to service a Yanmar 1GM10, something i usually charge about 1/4 of, but i also know that things sometimes take a lot more time that one would expect.

All i'm saying is, let's wait and find out the details before we hang them :)
 
I'm afraid you haven't got a leg to stand on if you didn't get a firm price before you instructed them to do the work. All you can do is tell them you won't employ them again unless they reduce their bill.
 
ghostlymoron said:
I'm afraid you haven't got a leg to stand on if you didn't get a firm price before you instructed them to do the work. All you can do is tell them you won't employ them again unless they reduce their bill.
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Well that's not entirely correct. Under section 51 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, where a price hasn't been agreed in advance, it must be reasonable:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/51/enacted

It might be a fairly high bar to prove that the cost is unreasonable, but certainly finding out why they seem to be charging for longer time that you might expect would be a first step. A quote from another yard might help prove your point if you ever had to prove it in a small claims court.

Marine law is possibly a bit different in terms of writs for unpaid bills but I don't think all that different. If you paid what you deemed reasonable and then they took, action for the rest then I think you could argue your point. Certainly not 'a leg to stand on' though, in my view .
 
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