KONG Anchor Connector - lateral breaking load issues?

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Babylon

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Just fitted a KONG anchor connector, but should I be concerned about lateral breaking forces if veering around and snatching at the anchor in boisterous conditions? (The traditional shackle previously used has much greater angles of lateral articulation, but its width plus the pin fouls the bow-roller cheeks on launch/recovery.)

Vital statistics are:
27ft heavy displacement yacht, 5000kg fully-laden
8mm tested chain, 12kg (25lb) Manson Supreme, KONG 444.10 (for 8,10,12mm chain) - all components galvanised

The KONG literature states max limits of 5000 Kgf in-line load and 2000 Kgf lateral load.
 
Why not remove the problem and introduce a rated shackle between swivel and anchor and even better rated shackles and a few links of chain between swivel and shank. Then there will be no lateral load.

It is not only the swivel that might concern you. The Supreme will stand the load, its a big anchor and has a bullet proof shank. But with the swivel you have now lengthened, effectively, the shank (beyond Manson's design) and it will move, rotate, shuffle round, earlier than it would without the extra length. The idea is to keep an anchor stationary.

The Kong seems well strong enough but why push the boundaries.

The shackle to look for (in the UK) is a Crosby 209A (this is a Grade B shackle - best you can get and costs peanuts) unless you have access to American sources and then a Grade B shackle from Peerless or Campbell. You can get Crosby shackles, maybe from a variety of sources but I have bought from Tecni-Lift in the UK, a contact supplied by Vyv.

Jonathan
 
Thanks for that. Unfortunately the Crosby 209A is still a traditional screw-pin anchor shackle - which will still foul the bow-roller cheeks and defeat my desired object, which is for the anchor to launch and recover without me having to first lift the whole caboodle up and over the bow-roller!

I'm not overly worried about the issue of the connector (which is simply that, not a swivel) extending the length of the shank, which won't be a significant factor. I'm more concerned about excessive lateral force breaking the thing apart and losing both my anchor and my holding.

Maybe I shouldn't worry...?
 
I wouldn't have thought you'd get to he limits of the Kong even laterally on a 5t boat. I use the same Kong on my 43ft 17t boat but with 3 links of 12mm inbetween the bow shackle and swivel to prevent to chance of it snagging.

View attachment 53846
 
Ah! You did not mention the fact that the shackle fouled the bow roller - one has to wonder why do they make bow rollers so narrow - they must know shackles have pins!

What you can do is cut the offending protrusion of the shackle pin and slot the pin to take a large flat screwdriver. Drill the pin first to take mousing wire once you have cut the protrusion off.

You must ensure not to cut the pin flush - you need to leave some protrusion (on the pin) overlapping the hole (eye) through which the pin is inserted - or in the extreme the pin can bend and simply pull through the hole. However I have tested these HT shackles and the pin shears before they bend so I do not think this a major issue. With a 10mm chain you can use a 1/2" shackle which will be well over strength - though maybe too big for your bow roller.

If you go the shackle route check that the shackle will fit the anchor and chain before you buy. Despite international standards 10mm chain does vary, or it varies enough not to be able to fit the variations that occur in 1/2"shackles!

If you use a cheap shackle - do not cut the eye off, it will bend and the pin (without the protrusion) will pull through the eye - I've tested and found it to be normal.

Jonathan
 
Look at cox engineering site or wait until Vyv cox comes on. He has sorted this for me and many others here.

Anchor- wichart blind S/s shackle- 4links of chain- Kong swivel - chain
 
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Or use a countersunk pin shackle. The Wichard ones are in their high strength stainless steel, a lot stronger than the chain. Use Loctite to ensure it stays attached. I undid mine two days ago to store the anchor in a locker for winter and was amazed how tight it was. i really struggled with a good Allen key set to undo it. All the details on additional links with swivels are on my website.
 
vyv_cox said:
Or use a countersunk pin shackle. The Wichard ones are in their high strength stainless steel, a lot stronger than the chain. Use Loctite to ensure it stays attached. I undid mine two days ago to store the anchor in a locker for winter and was amazed how tight it was. i really struggled with a good Allen key set to undo it. All the details on additional links with swivels are on my website.
Click to expand...

Blimey Vyv where did you come from ha ha.
 
vyv_cox said:
Or use a countersunk pin shackle. The Wichard ones are in their high strength stainless steel, a lot stronger than the chain. Use Loctite to ensure it stays attached. I undid mine two days ago to store the anchor in a locker for winter and was amazed how tight it was. i really struggled with a good Allen key set to undo it. All the details on additional links with swivels are on my website.
Click to expand...

I can confirm successful use of Loctite. I might have been a bit over enthusiastic in application but I applied to a gal anchor bow shackle clevis pin and when I came to release the pin I had to resort to use of a blow torch.
 
I've had a look at Witchard's catalogue, and it does not appear to be Australia specific but I cannot find a recessed high strength bow shackle. I can find recessed 'normal' bow shackles and high tensile shackles with normal clevis pins (with protrusions). Can anyone point me in the right direction - or maybe I misunderstand the advice (or am looking in the wrong place.

Jonathan
 
Remember to note the measurement "E" below. My anchor only has a hole rather than a long slow so the "E" dimension wont go through it. It means I have to put the shackle Pin through the hole and the Bow part of the shackle on the three links of 12mm chain which then attaches to the Kong Swivel....

However...

My new Crosby 209A has an "E" dimensions larger than I can get through the inside of 12mm links!!!!! So I'm buggered on that setup at the moment and need to look for 12mm links that are slightly longer to give me more internal clearance.

z-shackle-bow-dims.jpg.aspx
 
Imperial 1/2" short link anchor chain, ie American, will fit. You have a choice of G30, G43 or G70. How you source them, much more difficult (and being located in Australia I'm not going to be much use!). Vyv might know. But maybe try Hacketts, they might have some - though why, cannot imagine!! Try importers of American yachts - they often come with imperial chain which the new owner, in the UK, might reject in favour of metric chain - so the importer might have some sitting in a pile - forlorn and lonely.

But you only need a few links. If you know anyone who travels to America, West Marine will sell a 12" length - but if you try to buy they will send courier and it will really cost you.

Good luck.

Jonathan

edit - it becomes really clumsy (for a whole variety of reasons) but your anchor was designed to take a 'D' shackle with the pin through the hole. The intent was then to attach the chain with a bow shackle, bow through 'D' shackle and pin through chain. That works, and that's how CQRs were assembled. The new fashion to have swivels has thrown a spanner on those works as you end up with a very clumsy assembly. close edit.
 
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Twister_Ken said:
Wales.
Click to expand...

Greece at the moment, two days left.

Jonathan, I see what you mean about the Wichard HR countersunk pin shackles. They show them in 316 but not in 17/4PH. I have owned mine for more than ten years and was not aware that they no longer did them (apparently)

Just read the previous post. To source difficult chain sizes I would try Rigmasters in Southampton. Very helpful people with enormous experience. They supply many boat builders. Including Oyster that I know of.
 
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For Witchard, recessed head, HR shackles - it must be worth sending them an email.

I cannot recommend the option of using a 316 bow shackle with recessed head (or 316 bow shackles at all). The strength might equal that of the chain but most shackle makers,, Crosby, Peerless, Campbell, degrade strength by 50% when loaded at 90 degrees (and degrade by something in between when loaded at 45 degrees), this will drop strength to well below that of the chain (unless you are using a grossly oversized shackle - which will probably not fit the chain nor anchor).

I'm also a bit twitchy that the lifting shackle makers use a 6:1 safety factor and Witchard use what looks to be about 2.5:1. It might be that Witchard do not envisage their shackles being used in the same way as galvanised bow shackles.

A stainless shackle will indicate that it has been stressed, it will distort badly (have bolt croppers handy). When they fail I have found they distort so much the pin can pull out of the thread or the recessed head (if that is the style, can pull through the eye). The high tensile lifting shackles do distort but not much, before they shear.

But for such a cheap item I would try to use a lifting shackle, Grade B, a 3/8" shackle can have a break load of 10t or 12t vs a 316 10mm equivalent at 4t.

Jonathan

.
 
On sourcing from America.

American retailers seem to think they only way to send things is by courier. This actually denies them business as a courier can cost factorially more than a small item. American Post is quite cheap and, from memory, you can send 20lb anywhere in the world for US$49. Its cheaper for lighter items. Why retailers use couriers beats me. There is a little business opportunity in there somewhere! Particularly as the same kit that is sold in America costs more in Europe (and Australia) and they have access to stuff we never see.

But, specifically, there are some YBW members who are based in America, it might be possible they could source chain that will take the eye of a Crosby shackle and send it over.
 
northcave said:
I wouldn't have thought you'd get to he limits of the Kong even laterally on a 5t boat. I use the same Kong on my 43ft 17t boat but with 3 links of 12mm inbetween the bow shackle and swivel to prevent to chance of it snagging.

View attachment 53846
Click to expand...

Nice. But how would I overcome the problem of adding three links between the connector and the anchor without having to resort to a shackle?
 
Babylon said:
Nice. But how would I overcome the problem of adding three links between the connector and the anchor without having to resort to a shackle?
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You do not need to add 3 links, you could add 2 links and one shackle (if the issue is one of distance). Anything upto about 10 links works well. You could use a link joiner, the split 'C' links - I think you will find them described positively on Vyv's website.
 
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Neeves said:
You do not need to add 3 links, you could add 2 links and one shackle (if the issue is one of distance). Anything up to about 10 links works well. You could use a link joiner, the split 'C' links - I think you will find them described positively on Vyv's website.
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... which leads to this: http://www.tecni-lift.co.uk/Crosby-8mm-G335-Chain-Missing-Link-890-kgs-WLL-221-013-138

I assume its WLL (Working Load Limit) of 890kgs will be sufficient, but - being the last component before the shank end of the anchor - is there not a risk that repeated lateral forces could bend open the peened-over rivets and so compromise the connector's strength?

Also, I cannot find any countersunk pin shackles of any quality, except this: https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/2...tensile-certified-d-shackle---countersunk-pin

So, can I use a s/s component in a galvanised system without risking electrolysis?

Thanks for all the help so far!

Jon
 
You seem to be happier about using a shackle - why not as big as you can get 'D' shackle (Crosby) with the clevis pin head cut off. You are not restricted in size by the few links between anchor connector and anchor/shackle - you can use bigger (than your 8mm chain). If you use 10mm (say) it would take a 12mm 'C' link (I think? you need to check).

How do these options suit?

I'd be aiming to get as much articulation at the shank interface as possible.

I'm not keen on stainless as none of the stainless I have seen has anywhere near the strength of high tensile gal and I've seen stainless fail, unbranded gal fail (but not HT gal). I tested a 4.5t (min break load) 10mm 316 stainless bow shackle with recessed head and it failed at under 4t, the recessed head and thread both deformed - but in the end the head pulled through the eye. I tested a Crosby 209A 3/8th shackle and it failed at just over 10t. Both shackles were tested the same way on the same rig, one after the other. 4t is a high load, factorially more than you will ever see (I hope) but its a yacht, its not going to be a perfect set up and shackles (and anything) can be loaded in a way we cannot anticipate (so I prefer overtkill - its not expensive!).

Consider the options, post back with what seems to fit:)

Jonathan
 
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