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mrbenwaller

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Hi,

This could be really long but I will keep it brief..(you thank me)

My dad has always had a dream to get his own yacht to muck around in. He has coastal skipper. Mum has finally come round to his way of thinking. SO, seeings he is now retiring, and Im lovely (and so is my sister and her husband), were going to buy him a second hand yacht. Mum is gonna pay for him to have more lessons. I imagine he will want to be cruising the med, and I also imagine he would want to pop across the atlantic (well I know he wants to do this) and I was intending on bashing out around 40K, 50K max on a 34ft or so second hand boat. Im not concerned about the integrity of the boat for med cruising, but I do know he will want to do the Atlantic and I dont know if Bavarias and things of that nature are up for it? Im only a day skipper myself that enjoys more the weekend day sail and wine than the big slog, my knowledge on things other than where the corkscrew should be kept is rather thin.

So if you know what Im asking, then I would love to have a bit of inside information. Nobody trusts a salesman.

Basically, are cheap production boats do-able for big scary oceans?

I thankyou in advance.
 
Although there is always the potential for serious weather and seas the Atlantic crossing is known as the ' Milk Run' done at the right time of year!

The Med can be as ferrocious with its winds such as the Mistral and Levante which catch people unaware!

I know of cheap production yachts crossing the Atlantic and every year 20 or so single handed rowers row accross!, its really down to the individual and wether or not you would have faith in your vessel put in a situation!
 
I would VERY strongly advise against buying him a boat as a "surprise gift".

Reasons;
1/ choosing & planning is a major part of the fun.
2/ wrong boat is a very expensive mistake - at those sorts of prices you could be 10k out of pocket on reselling something unsuitable.

By the way, Dr Alain Bombard crossed the Atlantic in a rubber dinghy in the 1950's. Sjo Agg (Sea Egg) was only the size of a sailing dinghy (12' I think).

It's more about planning & being prepared than which boat you use or how much you spend. If he really is serious about an Atlantic crossing I would suggest you cut your budget by say 15-20% and use the money saved to cover preparing & equipping your vessel for such a crossing.
 
I don't know enough to point you in any direction, but what i can say, is that for those bucks, there are some seriously good 2nd hand ocean goers out there!

I'm sure you'll get some good advice from the more experienced than I on these forums. Especially if you can be just a little more specific..... Try to find his pet loves and pet hates with boats.
 
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I would VERY strongly advise against buying him a boat as a "surprise gift".

[/ QUOTE ]

Having just spotted that after i clicked 'send' for my post, i would HAVE to agree 100% with that comment.
 
People have sailed oceans in most unsuitable boats, but have often been lucky with the conditions to get away with it. A 14 year old has just done a crossing in a trailer sailor. Strong, well found yachts have been lost due to things like rudder failure. Usually the yacht is much stronger than the crew. In the Atlantic recently more yachts seem to have been lost due to crew failure than yacht failure. So the answer is, yes, almost any modern production yacht of 34 feet is capable of an Atlantic crossing, but (and it is a big but); Yachts are very individual things. One mans ideal cruiser is another mans dislike. You really need to find out just what sort of boat your father would feel most comfortable with.
 
The idea of a gift is so good that I'm sure it wouldn't be diluted by giving him a voucher with "Buy a Yacht" on it.
Or buy him a toy Pond Yacht and tell him you'll swap it for the one he really wants.

pondyatch2.jpg


Then you can follow the whole process through with him and he'll get what he wants.
 
Agree with you, it would be a bad idea to present him with a fait accompli - he needs to choose her himself - give him the money and let him get the kick out of getting what he wants. Well done though to you all - a very nice gesture
 
The west bound trip may be a milk run. But unless the intent is to stay over there there is the return trip to consider, which, being in more northerly latitudes, may well not be such an easy prospect.
 
wow! what fab kids you are. I have never heard of such a wondeful gesture.

I sort-of agree with the others - buying the boat is bit like him having a dream of living in france - and you nip off and just choose an area and buy a house, ta-rah!

HOWEVER i am guessing you are given to grand gestures and want to buy the boat! And it's not quite as fixed as a house either. So, the answer to your question is yes, a bavaria 36 frinstance entered the ARC (atlantic rally) and boats even quite bit smaller have done the same trip across the atlantic. There was that youngster did it in a 28 footer only this year.

Nevertheless, this remains a big and uh-oh easy-to-get-wrong present. You will have to trust a salesman a bit - and they should have a laugh too. Surprise Yacht, hah!

If you must buy the yacht, go find a brokerage (posh name for company that sells other people's yachts, like estate agent) in the local port (your bio doesn't give location) and take Mum along. If she likes it and the salesman says it'll do for cruising med and even the atlantic, well, it'll probably be fine.

Note that the broker is unlikely to have done the atlantic himself, nor even med perhaps. The med can actually be more punishing to a boat but anyway, most boats can do it, just need deccent preparation.

Strengthwise tho, modernish boats are ok and if you sail towards the med, every marina alongthe way has not-huge boats in, and most of them can make it to the next port. It's just a matter of waiting for the right weather,and hop along.

Bigger is more comfy at anchor and at sea, but means older of course for fixed outlay. For being on board for quite some time, i would say 36 foot distinctly comfier than 34.

Another alternative is to buy lessons and a yacht charter holiday in say the Ionian? Not such a grand gesture but can't so easily go wrong. The thing is, if the yacht turns out to be er not quite right - it'll be a bit awkward for him to sellit or part-ex for something better, no? Depends how you get along io suppose. It could be a teeny bit too daft to buy a surprise yacht - unless the trip to the yacht broker shop works out really well. I am a bit of a romantic and hope it does!

You can make an offer of quite bit lower than the asking price incidentally, say 15% off. But if there's a really nice one, well, it should be fine and you might agree on 10% off asking. So you can lookat any boat under (say) 55k. But lots of med-able boats are les than this. 45k should get something substantial - and you shd factor in a survey too, to check you aren't buying something needing loads of work. So your offer should be "subject to survey".

Actually, with the right broker you can lay a heavy burden of "we're inyour hands" ethics onnem by telling them the whole story - and it means that if they sell you a dud, they'll end up in the newspapers as a total ratbag!

The difficulties only just start when you realise that a 38 footer is quite nice but it's a 1997 boat. But age needn't be a killer, not like cars, boats aren't shagged out and ole bangers after ten years. Well, not all of them, it depends onhow uch care they have put in. Mum decides first if she likes it - more than half the battle i think. So if she doesn't like the colour or whatever, that's that, move on.

For the med, choose light colours which are reflect sunlight - not a blue hull for example. Same goes for the deck - teak is nice but needs maintenance and hot underfoot means hot inside the boat too, so white plastic is fine and more practical and cheaper. You need decent suncover "bimini" for the med and it is likely that older boats wil have more kit onboard. Jeez, this is quite a leap you know.

For a wide choice of decent seagoing boats i would guess you ned to be looking at south coast UK, lots of marinas and brokers there, rather just one or two. But not absolutely vital - youjust need one boat i suppose.

Brandwise, bavaria is not the only player, and othrs like beneteau, jeanneau also have massive range and make lots of boats. Bavaria can also be a bit sneaky and prices to some extent seem v low cos standard headline price is fairly free of options that wil be needed really,so it can seem cheap but then need lots more bits like radar and so on.

Have a play with the "boats for sale" finder on the site for starters, advanced search...

eek, I hope it works out. If it does, it'll be utterly fab.
 
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There used to be a chap called GC1 who was very good with these sort of questions, but he isn't around much these days........ /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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You reckon??????? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
I argee half the fun is choosing your boat, but to answer the question for someone with little experance you need a boat that will look after you IMO a Rivel 32 or 34 would be a good boat. Secondhand around 30/35K. That would leave some money for new good equipiment, ie electronics and life raft.
Maybe not the best for living space in the Med but very good sea boats.
 
While seconding most of the things written before, I'd like to add one idea: check that your second hand yacht will be a reasonable third hand deal, either this way or the other of the pond. You can spend a little more (or buy a little shorter) for an "evergreen", a boat that is that keeps its value, so probably it's better to stick to makes and models that are il large supply now in the second hand market OR to "niche" models whose affectionate fans tend to allways appreciate (Najad, Moody, Hallberg Rassy just to name a few).
 
definitely dont surprise him.Choosing A boat is a very personal decision that often defies all logic.Its a wonderfull gesture but please let him choose the boat .
 
I hope my kids turn out like you!!!!!!!!

Agree with the others.... the 'perfect' boat is a very personal thing..... very difficult to choose on someone elses behalf....

If you really want to buy him the boat, as has been said above, stick with something mainstream that will be easy to sell on...

Couple of other points...... you would get good sound advice if you posted 'possibles' on here..... better than a wild guess...... and secondly..... a survey is an absolute essential on a boat of that sort of value....

But what a marvellous gesture....
 
Agreed! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Not caravans best suited to marina life, but you'd sleep easier off-watch with one of this type.

Another question perhaps to ask, is, what do I do with the boat if my dream doesn't come true & I want to sell up? Does anyone else want to buy it? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

A secondary question perhaps, but the wrong boat can be a nightmare. In the middle of an ocean, you don't want nightmares. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Well said.


<span style="color:white"> Blimey. You lot must still be recovering after Christmas. This has to be a troll? </span>


Not something to be entered into without a lot of thought even if you are buying for yourself.
 
i wish my daughter was as "loveley" as are you and your sister all i receive from her are requests for money and attitude in abondence but then again she is a "TEENAGER" /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif! hope she matures out of it soon
 
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