oldbloke
Well-Known Member
In the days of using levers for the kicker, this was quite a common way of increasing the range. It can work well but probably wouldn't meet WingMarks criteria
Kicker range of movement needed, scandalising the main and all that sort of thing....
- Thread starter Wing Mark
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Wing Mark
Well-Known Member
Decades a go I had a dinghy with a lever kicker, with a coarse adjust.
Also seen coarse adjuster with a cascade on an RS600.
But I am keen to get full functionality from the cockpit without leading back yet more lines.
As an aside, one interesting feature of level kickers is that they can be made to increase the mechanical advantage towards the end of their travel.
So potentially the power you need, with less string than if the advantage was constant.
William_H
Well-Known Member
I find it hard to get my head around the idea of massive kickers (vang) on a cruising type boat. Typically like mine the boom is relatively close to the cabin top. The vang then must run from cabin top to boom. Now geometry indicates that about 45 degrees for the vang is good. This typically means the vang attaches to the boom at a fraction of the length gooseneck to boom end. Because the sail load is all at the clew (boom end) You have a large lever about 8 to 1 in my case of clew to vang. To get 10kg down force on clew you need 80kg down force at vang attachment. Now with 45 degree vang that also means 80kg force pushing boom in to mast. (not good for gooseneck wear or possible failure. (note here if you mount vang attach further along the boom towards the end you get better leverage onto clew but pull becomes less down and more into gooseneck.)
Now dinghies and some bigger boats will be able to take vang down a lot further. (dinghy to keel) so make vang much more effective. For my boat it seems vang is hardly more than a preventer to hold boom down when running boom right out. holding boom down minimises chafe on shrouds (fractional rig) and can avert a Chines gybe.
(here Chinese gybe means when boom rises and gybes while top of main sail stays on other side) (horrible)
So on my boat vang is no use in shaping main sail. This is done with wide traveller so main sheet tension.
With regard to scandalising the main. Yes I know of it. No I have never used it. Not good for main sail chafing on shrouds. I am aware of advice when under spinnacker when over powered to dump vang to scandalise main but have never done that. Just dump main sheet and hang on.
One type of racing boat here called Bakewell White 8 has main sheet, back stay and vang all emerging from a box in the floor of the cockpit. No traveller for main sheet. Sheet hand juggles these to handle gusts and shape main sail. Seems to work but vang does mount at floor level (no cabin) so lots of power.
So I may be wrong but not a vang fan. ol'will
Now dinghies and some bigger boats will be able to take vang down a lot further. (dinghy to keel) so make vang much more effective. For my boat it seems vang is hardly more than a preventer to hold boom down when running boom right out. holding boom down minimises chafe on shrouds (fractional rig) and can avert a Chines gybe.
(here Chinese gybe means when boom rises and gybes while top of main sail stays on other side) (horrible)
So on my boat vang is no use in shaping main sail. This is done with wide traveller so main sheet tension.
With regard to scandalising the main. Yes I know of it. No I have never used it. Not good for main sail chafing on shrouds. I am aware of advice when under spinnacker when over powered to dump vang to scandalise main but have never done that. Just dump main sheet and hang on.
One type of racing boat here called Bakewell White 8 has main sheet, back stay and vang all emerging from a box in the floor of the cockpit. No traveller for main sheet. Sheet hand juggles these to handle gusts and shape main sail. Seems to work but vang does mount at floor level (no cabin) so lots of power.
So I may be wrong but not a vang fan. ol'will
Arcady
Well-Known Member
Does the OP have a loose footed mainsail? If so, I have found that releasing the outhaul is a quicker and more efficient way to effectively scandalise the main.
Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
I've only been sailing for 50+ years and I'm embarrassed to say (well, maybe not...) I have no idea what 'scandalising' a main is or why you would do it ?
dunedin
Well-Known Member
See bottom of page 2 on this https://westviewsailing.co.uk/wp-co...2010-Controlling-your-boat-by-sails-alone.pdf
Wing Mark
Well-Known Member
Simply, hoiking the boom up with the topping lift so the leach goes totally slack and the main loses all drive , while tending not to flog.
It is useful, to give people something to do when there's 5 students on a school boat, and very occasionally to depower the boat quickly when picking up a mooring under sail or faffing with an anchor perhaps.
