Kicker and Outhaul

[Fire99]

Well my boat is finally sailing.. Horrah. Now a little time to address a couple of issues.

Firstly the Kicker.

She's a Snapdragon 23 with a pretty long boom by all accounts and the Kicker is pathetic. The top block hooks into the underside of the boom and a second block has a crude jammer with a pin to release. I've read that the rope diameter should be around the same as the main sheet. Mine is nothing of the sort and it's near impossible to get any effective tension on it.

Any recommendations on how to upgrade?

Secondly, the outhaul is currently just a small length of rope that runs through an eye on the end of the boom and tied back on itself. Is there anything simple but a little more scientific that I can use to give a slightly better control of outhaul tension?

That'll do for now.

Many thanks,


Nik

 

[VicS]

Well my boat is finally sailing.. Horrah. Now a little time to address a couple of issues.

Firstly the Kicker.

She's a Snapdragon 23 with a pretty long boom by all accounts and the Kicker is pathetic. The top block hooks into the underside of the boom and a second block has a crude jammer with a pin to release. I've read that the rope diameter should be around the same as the main sheet. Mine is nothing of the sort and it's near impossible to get any effective tension on it.

Any recommendations on how to upgrade?

Secondly, the outhaul is currently just a small length of rope that runs through an eye on the end of the boom and tied back on itself. Is there anything simple but a little more scientific that I can use to give a slightly better control of outhaul tension?

That'll do for now.

Many thanks,


Nik

My kicker, albeit on slightly smaller boat, is pictured below.

The top section is wire the bottom section is a made up with two double blocks, the bottom one having a jammer, giving a 4 fold purchase.
I have used fairly light cordage ... 4 or 5 mm probably .. but if you wish you could use a larger diameter and of course heavier blocks.

The boom attachment point should be positioned so that the kicker is a 45° for best effect.

Note that there is special way to thread double blocks so that they don't twist

I dont have an adjustable outhaul ... my boat is not a hot racing machine! The foot is tensioned with a long length of light cordage that goes from the eye in the clew, through the eye on the boom end and back through the eye of the sail several times. Effectively giving the equivalent of a four fold purchase.

 

[Fire99]

Many thanks for that.

I think regarding the Outhaul, I'll just copy you on that one. My mainsail is far from 'racy' but I think it needs a better purchase than it's current 'bit of string and a knot'.

Like the kicker idea. I think I could do similar but perhaps I'd use slightly larger blocks and larger diameter 'string'

 

[merlin3688]

My records show you have a "E" measurement of 3535, (back of mast to black band), I am not sure you need a rope the same size as the mainsheet however a good purchase system will help, the outhaul as well could be a 2-1 possibly inside the boom and this will help.

 

[Fire99]

"E" Measurement? No idea on that one. Is 3535 a mm length?

I did think that 10mm might be a bit OTT but I think it's currently about 6mm and springier than zebidee!

 

[merlin3688]

The E is the measurement mentioned, see http://www.sailingschoolandrigging.com/Helpful-information-I-J-P-E-.html

 

[Fire99]

The E is the measurement mentioned, see http://www.sailingschoolandrigging.com/Helpful-information-I-J-P-E-.html

Ahh thanks. That seems about right. Around (or a little under) 12ft.

 

[VicS]

"E" Measurement? No idea on that one. Is 3535 a mm length?

I did think that 10mm might be a bit OTT but I think it's currently about 6mm and springier than zebidee!

Don't use strechy rope then. Use terylene rather than nylon ... or one of the modern high tech fibres that cost about a million squids a metre and are a million times stronger than steel

 

[Fire99]

Don't use strechy rope then. Use terylene rather than nylon ... or one of the modern high tech fibres that cost about a million squids a metre and are a million times stronger than steel

Good point. This is one 'fixture' that came with the boat when I bought her and I've not dabbled with. Not exactly sure what rope it is. It's not polyprop (which only deserves to be on trailer tarps.) but it's navy blue and a bit springy.

 

[Fire99]

And I think the ratio of the kicker is only 2:1, so it's hard to get a whole lot of pull on the thing.

 

[VicS]

And I think the ratio of the kicker is only 2:1, so it's hard to get a whole lot of pull on the thing.

Mine was only 2:1 when I had a claw ring ( and used the roller reefing) I increased to 4:1 when I did away with the claw ring.

One of the reasons I used party wire was to reduce the stretchiness of all rope. It also looks neater than four lengths of rope going up and down between boom and mast heel.

 

[ProDave]

Well here's mine

4:1 kicker. This picture shows it using a jammer built into the lower block, but I don't use that any more. Now it terminates in a cam cleat just forward of the hatch so I can (just) reach it from the cockpit.

The outhaul runs over a block on the end of the boom, into the boom. It then runs forward, round a block inside the boom then back where it's tied off.

The block in the boom has a rope atached and that leads forwards. It's the blue rope exiting the bottom of the boom into a jammer. So pulling that gives a 2:1 advantage on the outhaul.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

If you wish to increase purchase on the outhaul and kicker it worth spending a few extra pounds on quality roller bearing blocks. Friction is your enemy, on a small boat, more so than a larger, so do what you can to eliminate it. There is no point in having a 4:1 kicker if when you release it it doesn't move. All additional speed advantage is eliminated by walking up to the kicker and pulling falls of line through. If you are not too interested in optimising speed then general settings are good enough so don't change anything.

 

[VicS]

. If you are not too interested in optimising speed then general settings are good enough so don't change anything.

Thats it.
My boat is not a hot racing machine, neither is the OPs Snapdragon nor the Frolic.

I might tension the foot a bit higher when I put the sail on an a breezy day than I do on a calm day. Likewise pull the kicker a bit tighter on a breezy day but thats the limit of any adjustment.

 

[Lakesailor]

Outhaul is easy. Rig it like this (this on an 18ft Foxcub) yours is a bit bigger but you can get plenty of purchase as long as the sail isn't powered-up.

As for the kicker a small line is fine as long as it has no stretch. The caveman way to set it is to physically pull down on the end of the boom and lock off the kicker whilst there is little tension on it. Again do it whilst head-to-wind.
As you say you're not adjusting for racing, but just trying to get a decent set to the sail.

 

[VicS]

Outhaul is easy. Rig it like this (this on an 18ft Foxcub) yours is a bit bigger but you can get plenty of purchase as long as the sail isn't powered-up.

As for the kicker a small line is fine as long as it has no stretch. The caveman way to set it is to physically pull down on the end of the boom and lock off the kicker whilst there is little tension on it. Again do it whilst head-to-wind.
As you say you're not adjusting for racing, but just trying to get a decent set to the sail.

I'd not bother with the shackle and block. I run the line through the cringle and back to the jammer... to hell with the friction!

 

[Lakesailor]

I had them, and it's so much more elegant.

 

[Fire99]

Ahh good stuff.

Cheers for the pics and info. Plenty to have a faff with.

 

[Fantasie 19]

My kicker, albeit on slightly smaller boat, is pictured below.

The top section is wire the bottom section is a made up with two double blocks, the bottom one having a jammer, giving a 4 fold purchase.
I have used fairly light cordage ... 4 or 5 mm probably .. but if you wish you could use a larger diameter and of course heavier blocks.

The boom attachment point should be positioned so that the kicker is a 45° for best effect.

Note that there is special way to thread double blocks so that they don't twist

I dont have an adjustable outhaul ... my boat is not a hot racing machine! The foot is tensioned with a long length of light cordage that goes from the eye in the clew, through the eye on the boom end and back through the eye of the sail several times. Effectively giving the equivalent of a four fold purchase.

Smaller boat than yours but my kicker set up is much the same as VicS (albeit to a boom claw).... two double blocks, one of which is a jammer, 6mm line...

For outhaul, I have a similar set up to Lakesailor, jam cleat on the side of the boom, but the single block is on the end of the boom rather than at the sail.. 4mm line for minimum friction, and it loops through the cringle twice with the end of the line then coming from the block to the cleat...

 

[oilyrag]

Nik
Save your money. The kicker on a masthead rig cruising boat like a Snappy 23 is not designed to allow adjustment when sailing. You use the mainsheet to haul in the boom and simply take the slack out of the kicker. It only serves to stop the boom lifting, and opening the leech, as you come off the wind and ease the mainsheet. Powerful adjustable kickers are only for boats with fractional bendy masts. Similarly with the outhaul, set it up before you set off with no wind in the sail and leave it.