Keeping an Oceanis in Greece - talk me out of this.

[antcollins]

I am playing with the idea of buying an Oceanis 281 in Lefkas, Greece. Before I do I will go out and view her, moorings, etc.

Apart form the obvious issues around tax if I ever brought her back to the UK, language issues and travel costs, does anyone know of some reasons for this being a daft idea?

I have moderate experience around the North Wales coast and have completed day skipper. Anyone got any idea of average marina costs, lift in/outs, availability of Volvo spares?

As I am at the stage of being really enthusiastic about the idea of great weather and sailing, sandy bays and tavernas please feel free to tell me why this idea sucks before I go too far!

 

[jimi]

It dioes'nt .. go for it! Check osmosis though, a much greater problem in warm water!

 

[Whitelighter]

be prepared, in my experience of having a boat out in Greece, the Greeks love paperwork and beaurocracy and are anti anything non-greek.

That said, my parents seem happy living out there so it can't all be bad

 

[Nick_Pam]

I know that keeping a Jeanneau in Spain instead of Plymouth was one of my better ideas........!!!
Marina prices about the same number as UK, but in Euros instead of UKP...in fact most things are about the same number but in Euros....€100 for a lift; €1/litre for diesel....

A donf... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Twister_Ken]

A) Has the boat been in the charter trade? If so it will be rather more used-up than you might expect.
B) What happens if the local low cost airline withdraws from whatever the best air route for you is? Is there some sort of scheduled service down there or will you be faced with long, tedious and expensive journeys?
C) How much holiday can you take a year? If 'not a lot' will you get value out of her?
D) 28 feet is quite small to spend a lot of time on, unless you like camping
E) How are you going to handle regular maintenance? Spending holiday time mechanicking is not everyone's idea of fun, especially if they have lumpy chests
F) Having a boat there will stop you holidaying elsewhere
G) Sandy bays are usually associated with tidal waters. Med beaches tend to be more gravelly, and mucky coz they are not tide-washed twice a day.
H) How will you feel when you hear, in the depths of winter, that a storm has swept through the Aegean, and you're 1000 miles from your boat?

Why not consider a boatshare down there - to spread the cost of ownership, the maintenance tasks, and to maximise use of the boat?

 

[antcollins]

Some very good points.

There are a few for sale but yes, most are ex charter. I am expecting wear and tear. As there is choice I could look around.

The airline is a really good point. I will look at this further. As I'm a teacher I have good holiday time

The storm part is of concern too. Good insurance will be a must then.

Thanks for those good points.

 

[Nick_Pam]

Ant

Ken makes some good points, but remember that a good marina has staff who will watch over your boat...spend some additional money on top quality mooring kit including big fenders and springs ofr your mooring warps - then you will sleep at night.

Getting work done is not difficult and relatively inexpensive in comparison to the South coast of the UK...having said that, a couple of days on routine stuff each time you go out keeps on top of most jobs.

Unless you are going to keep your boat miles from anywhere, or you live miles from the nearest UK airports (we are lucky in that we have Birmingham, East Midlands, Coventry, Luton and Stanstead within an hour of home) there will always be good flight availability and having done the survey myself last year, expect to spend about £65 per person return for your trip - thie price seems to hold good right across Europe and even into Croatia.

IMHO the good outweighs the bad.

Nick

 

[tcm]

ken's point are worthwhile. I reckon that as a rule of thumb unles you can use the boat six+ weeks a year you are better off chartering. Also note that as distant owner the boat is less of a "pride and joy" thing - it's more of a machine for holidays, with convenience the primary issue rather than sheer joy of ownership.

 

[TiggerToo]

I second Twister Ken's points.

Ask yourself: why do you want to own a boat? If so, is Greece the best place to do it? Usually ownership is more than just sailing her in nice places (just read a random selection of PBO forum threads and you'll get the idea).

If I wanted to sail regularly in Greece, I'd just charter. Or perhaps look at the deals you get with The Moorings: they'll look after maintenance for you. And at the end you can decide whether to go on, bring her back, or trade her in.

FWIIW in the end we decided to own ours here in Lovely West Country. And I do not use "lovely" with any irony.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

THIS was my view soem weeks ago, and I haven't changed my view, in fact reinforced it.

 

[Davy_S]

H) How will you feel when you hear, in the depths of winter, that a storm has swept through the Aegean, and you're 1000 miles from your boat?

He probably wont give a bollox cos Lefkas is in the Ionian. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Lizzie_B]

Hi. Here are my thoughts from the same thread.
I think until retirement, most people have to fit their sailing in around their work/family lifestyle.

We keep our boat on the east Coast of the USA. The original plan was to bring her back to the UK, but SWMBO and I sat on the marina in Virginia watching Ospreys fish and couldn't think of one good reason for us to bring her back.

The costs are hugely cheaper. In the UK we could not hope to own the boat we have or stay in a marina of similar quality.

We save about £5000 a year just on berthing costs alone over the Solent marinas which would be our home sailing area.
Also boats, equipment, yard costs, insurance etc seem much lower in the states as well

That pays for an awful lot of flights, car hire and dinners out.

When we made the decision weekends were our busiest times and least available for sailing.
We are fortunate in having lots of friends and relatives who own boats in the UK, so when we do have a free weekend it's not a problem to go sailing.

They, in return, get the opportunity to sail in the USA.

We used to keep a boat at Haslar and when we coldly analysed the usage we made of it, it was very poor. We tended to make plans for sailing holidays, but they always seemed to get eroded by family and business , or jobs needing doing in the house, etc. Often planned weeks would be whittled down to 3 or 4 days.

With the boat overseas we have to
plan well ahead and book flites and somehow it just seems easier for us to then make ourselves unavailable for all the things that used to get in the way of sailing.

By joining a local sailing club we have created a strong net work of friends who are always happy to help, advise and socialise.

I usually get 4 fortnights a year in an area where to charter with Sunsail is over £3000 a week excluding flites.

My wife, who is more restricted by leave allowances at work will fly out on friday nite to join me, have the whole week and fly back Saturday or Sunday night, so she gets 4 x 8days sailing for 20 days leave.
It works well for us, in our situation and is improving with the increasing absence of kids and seniority at work.

The ideal trips are those tied on to her having a business trip to DC so the company pay her flite costs and she can just tag two weekends and 5 days leave on the end of her business schedule.

The only 'down side' is the kids are beginning to get keen to come sailing with us with the boat in the USA - in their eyes, much more attractive than the Solent!!

My wife does a lot of business air travel so we avidly save up air miles and these will usually pay for a couple of flites a year. We find we do more sailing than when we had a boat in the UK.

My cousin keeps his boat in Majorca for the same reasons and finds they use the boat far more than when it was a two hour drive away.

So for us it works really well, but maybe not if you're the sort of person who has lots of free weekends to give to sailing.

I think people have to realistically examine how much they use their boat, how it fits with their lifestyle, and make the decision that best suits.

Our boat cost us £16k and about another £6K to bring her fully up to standard.

I would add that we have found a natural rhythm of going out at the beginning and end of the season, to get the boat out of winter layup mode and for lay up. On each of these trips we spend about 3 days working on the boat and sail for the rest of the fortnight.
Then our other trips out are basically pure holiday.

You do need to find a yard and marina that you trust. Ours is very good. I can just email them and it's done. They also receive mail and packages for me - which I have found an invaluable service.

I wuld have thought as teachers your lifestyle would be well suited to this type of arrangement.

 

[firstmatewendy]

On a much more mundane level, we keep our boat in the Netherlands (about 4 hours away by ferry or tunnel and car) and use it far more than we ever did when it was 45 minutes up the road!

It used to be all too tempting not to bother if the forecast was bad, tides were wrong etc., whereas now we go on given dates whatever the weather forecast (like this weekend!) and make the most of it.

Going "foreign" also makes it seems like you've been on holiday when you've only been away for a weekend. Might be different if we had to pfaff around with flying, though!

 

[tcm]

tee hee!

 

[Appleyard]

Ant we bought a boat 2 years ago in Malta ,moved it to Greece and it has been the best thing ever.
However
You are a teacher..this means longish holidays ..good..but July and August? Not good in Greece. It is murderously hot,very busy,polluted with flotillas ,and generally lacking decent winds. Many people ourselves included who sail own boats there ,do a spring and autumn cruise,leaving the boat for the summer. This is much more pleasant. A 28 footer would be a bit tight for more than a week or 2.
Keeping a boat in Greece is pretty straightforward..we have not found any problem with Greek beaurocracy,although I believe it can happen. Running costs are affordable..we take it out of the water when not in use..brings peace of mind..but re maintenance and repairs,you should really be able and prepared to do the majority of work yourself..have heard many stories of people waiting days for engineers ,etc to do work which could have been done in an hour or so. Last week I spoke to a couple who had been waiting two days for someong to come and change a raw water pump. And its not only the locals, the friendly expat is as likely to mess you around as anybody. Having said that,most spares are available,but generally dearer than in the UK.
The good news is that,as has been said in previous posts,the weather tends to be amenable,eating and drinking is still relatively cheap and mooring coats are practically nil,unless you frequent marinas (see my recent post on Gouvia),Diesel is 1 euro/litre,and there are plenty of ways to get to/from th area. Hauling and storage varies from the cheap and grim upwards. You generally get what you pay for. RE tax..if youbuy an ex charter boat,the tax will have to be paid aat the time of purchase. (Greece is in the EU) ,but we have seen plenty of independently owned boats for sale,good bad and downright ugly,there are really nice bargains to be had.
Language... Not as difficult as it looks or sounds..there is some good stuff online .

 

[HenryB]

Ant,

If you intend to keep a boat near Lefkas and only intend to make 2 or 3 trips per year then it would be worth considering keeping it ashore at Preveza Marine (or Cleopatra Marine, next door). Both excellent yards with travelhoists but without any pontoons or moorings. Preveza offer reduced lift/launch rates for multiple launches each year. The yards are a bit isolated but are secure and not very expensive. The airport is about 1 km from the yards, or use the regular bus service to Athens.
We used Preveza Marine over winter and were very pleased with the service.

 

[Appleyard]

Would second that recommendation Henry But..Have you seen Cleopatra recently?? BIG work in progress new marina,offices,restaurant,shop etc etc. !!! Will be great when it is finished.

 

[Oliveoyl]

New marinas in Greece - seems to be a local tradition that they get started, but never finished

 

[ostra4]

We keep our boat in that area having done so for three years .Prior to that we shared for around eight years .Flights if you cant wait for the bargains are usssualy £180-£220 ish to Preveza .Dont bother with Athens its a real pain .Get flight to Corfu enjoy nice trip down to Nidri .There are no low cost airlines going to Lefkas .If you can bide your time cheap flights can be had but we never seem to get them as we have to plan in advance to get time off work .Share option worked well but not as cheap in proportion to number of owners as they get hammered and gear wears out a LOT faster plus folk who do work for you tend to see lots of owners paying and charge accordingly .If you share and your not happy with who is looking after boat is very hard to get others to change .
I cant talk you out of it but bear in mind the weather can be really bad on occasion, its not all easy sailing,can be crowded in high season .Cleopatra is a dust bowl at present but will be very good when done .Lots of good chandlers around .Theft is a growing problem which the local police do nothing to stop !!
As above , port police love paperwork and often not pleasant to deal with . You can only fly from two UK airports to PREVEZA but lots of local airports to Corfu .
Its hard to appreciate how remote Lefkas is but I drove there from Athens a few years ago (in January) and its a good 5 hour drive with not much between Athens and Lefkas .Stunning scenery of course .

 

[Twister_Ken]

>He probably wont give a bollox cos Lefkas is in the Ionian<

S'all Greek to me!