Keep off the rocks!

[RichMac]

Hi all, I've published this video because of the lack of training material about modern, digital navigation.

Few of the training organisations are giving much training for GPS navigation, which is what we all use. To be safe we need multiple devices, and be aware of possible chart errors.
But most importantly, we must navigate! Most accidents are caused by getting distracted and not watching where we are going.

Traditional or digital, which is safer? Maybe the best solution is a bit of both.

"Yacht navigation - how to be safe"

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am afraid that the video is inaccurate; the RYA schools certainly do teach electronic navigation.. Much of the advice is common knowledge amongst sailors and is certainly taught on RYA courses. The sad thing is that the way that it is put across is not exactly helpful. Furthermore, some of the assertions in this video are very much a matter of opinion, and as the saying goes, "opinions differ".

I declare an interest as I teach and examine for the RYA some of the time. The upside of this is that I know what is going on and what is really happening. Sadly, the OP trying to prove his point with a slack handful of well publicised cases where the navigation of the yacht was seriously deficient doesn't wash IMHO.

 

[Graham376]

Which ever is used, things can go wrong. Heading down the channels to our mooring, the plotter (updated) chart shows us crossing dried out areas, when we're in about 5 metres of water. OTOH, some N Zealand friends ran their boat on to a reef because the paper chart was out by a mile or more, area last surveyed in 1800s.

 

[RichMac]

I am afraid that the video is inaccurate; the RYA schools certainly do teach electronic navigation.. Much of the advice is common knowledge amongst sailors and is certainly taught on RYA courses.

A disappointing response from someone committed to yachting safety.

My video covers a number of safety issues based on my own experience, and accident studies. You say they are all covered by the RYA courses, can you please link me to where they are, I haven't been able to find much. (although I see the RYA will be doing more this year)

If these digital navigation issues are not included in the theory, it's pot luck what instructor you get. He may cover modern navigation in detail, or simply point out the basics. Some of my advice may be common knowledge amongst experienced sailors, but the whole point of training is to teach the issues rather than find out the hard way.

 

[bikedaft]

interesting vid - but main issue is lack of knowledge of two types of files for chartplotters - vector and raster - vector is compressed data that plotter decompresses to produce a chart, and will often not show rocks when zoomed out. raster are basically pdf's (a direct scanned copy) of e.g. Admiralty charts - hence will show rocks at all zoom levels. i.e. you need 2 plotters, one running each file type to be safe. or vector and paper...

the RTW boats are simply going too fast to use vector (like Navionics) for both planning, and zoomed in. it's hard enough (and dangerous) at 5kts, never mind the speeds they do.

a mate was working on a protocol that everyone would use to make raster charts easier to use, moving between tiles etc, but it was never taken up by the industry... shame. (they are a lot safer than vector, to me anyway)

my 2p worth

but you are right - RTFM, and know the tool's limitations. most folk do not realise the potential (huge) pitfalls

 

[sarabande]

I completed my Dayskipper Theory in 2016. The syllabus most certainly covered digital navigation in detail, and as most of the other course members were beginners, there was much discussion by the tutor on choice of equipment, the practicalities of siting on the boat, the need for harmonising with chart standards, terrestrial reference systems and geodetic datum protocols. The matter of SPOF (Single Point Of Failure) when relying on GPS satellite coverage was also emphasised.

Having waded through your video, I take issue with the pedagogic principles employed. Whilst you clearly have extensive experience of relying on electronic navigation, the way that the points you wish to teach are presented does not make best use of the medium. The content is poorly structured in that it is neither linear nor sequential, and it lacks the coverage of all the material needed for a video claiming to cover what are incorrectly alleged to be deficiencies in the RYA syllabuses.

The presentation style of the video is out of date and does not make best use of the medium. You are lecturing statically to camera, interspersed with repetitively dramatic clips from sailing accidents, and screen shots of GPS events. The video is heavily influenced by blog production techniques which are irrelevant to videos correctly produced within modern IT- based teaching methodologies. Did you have a storyboard and submit it to review for compliance with best teaching practice ?

From the graphics, I suspect you are highly skilled in Power Point work, and have translated those skills directly into video rather than transmuting them into the very different styles and techniques which are required for instruction by video.

Finally, I take issue with your 'requirement' to have at least three GPS systems. Yet you emphasise the need for the Mk1 eyeball. Head down under a towel (|) or the best practice of seamanship in keeping a good lookout ? You make good points about zooming in to see details of hazards at smaller scale, but the practicalities of doing that with multiple systems, with different chart sources and styles, let alone kit located in different parts of the boat, together with the problems of multiple source resilience and resolving inconsistent data, raise warning hackles that your zeal for gadgets has overtaken the need for need for certainty and most importantly, the overwhelming and essential requirement to be able to revert to a 'last known position' on a paper charts for when the GPS signal is nullified by an external agent, or when the primary electrics fail, or the batteries expire.

 

[RichMac]

The presentation style of the video is out of date and does not make best use of the medium.

Many thanks for taking the time to review my video. What can I say? I'm very much an amateur and trying my best! No, I've never used Powerpoint, and had nobody to submit my storyboard for review (Maybe ask you next time?). But this is the value of Youtube, it's the content rather than the professionalism of the production, with some very good instructional videos, and of course a lot of rubbish.

Myself and my family have also done the Day Skipper theory in Australia to get our ICC's, digital navigation was hardly mentioned. It depends who you get!

 

[john_morris_uk]

Myself and my family have also done the Day Skipper theory in Australia to get our ICC's, digital navigation was hardly mentioned. It depends who you get!

Can you enlarge on your last comment.
I ask because it shouldn’t be possible to get an ICC through doing DS theory. You need to do the practical. Is it a typo?

 

[RichMac]

two types of files for chartplotters - vector and raster -

I'm not sure there's a lot of difference, they are both based on the original paper charts with all their failings.
One problem with vector is that they've been transcribed from the paper, with potential errors, like important features missing. The advantage of, say, the Navionics charts is that they are 'live' and constantly updated from sat images and user input.

What I find strange is that different scale charts use different data. The detail chart may show a feature accurately, but the zoomed out chart still shows it in the wrong position from the original paper chart. Why doesn't the wide chart inherit data from the detail? Lesson - always zoom in!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

"I'm not sure there's a lot of difference, they are both based on the original paper charts with all their failings."

"One problem with vector is that they've been transcribed from the paper, with potential errors, like important features missing."

"The advantage of, say, the Navionics charts is that they are 'live' and constantly updated from sat images and user input."

"What I find strange is that different scale charts use different data."

The detail chart may show a feature accurately, but the zoomed out chart still shows it in the wrong position from the original paper chart. Why doesn't the wide chart inherit data from the detail? Lesson - always zoom in!

If you haven't grasped the fundamentals of vector vs raster, and why scaling is used, and how details change with zoom and scale, and how Navionics updates actually work, (for example) then setting yourself up as an expert on the topic and criticising others with decades of real experience is frankly humbug.

 

[RichMac]

Can you enlarge on your last comment.
I ask because it shouldn’t be possible to get an ICC through doing DS theory. You need to do the practical. Is it a typo?

Hi John,
I did my ICC with a RYA accredited instructor, a half-day sail and a theory test after. My ticket was issued by MCA, IYT. My test covered nothing about digital nav.
My wife and son did the test with another RYA accredited instructor. They had to do, and pass the online study course for the Day Skipper which took 25 hours. Then a half day practical test, with very brief mention of the chartplotter. Their tickets were issued in Ireland I think, so maybe our courses were not really RYA, I don't know how it works.

I may be wrong about the RYA training. In researching this video I've spent a lot of time online looking for training materials on digital navigation. I've already spent $4,500 on our ICC's, I didn't want to spend many thousands more looking for digital training!

 

[RichMac]

setting yourself up as an expert on the topic and criticising others with decades of real experience is frankly humbug.

No, I'm not an expert, and will never claim to be.
In my 45 years of offshore navigating, I've made plenty of mistakes, been lost and scared sometimes, and used a few too many guardian angels.
The expert is the young instructor, long on qualifications but short on sea-time, who has never made any mistakes!

And I do know the difference between raster and vector, but I've only used vector in C-Map and Navionics. But I have used raster charts in aviation, and understand how they work.

 

[wallacebob]

RYA theory and practical courses I have completed covered use of digital charts and nav systems. The RYA had as a teaching tool their own simulation software to practise at home, included with theory course. Is this a UK practice, as the OP seems to be Aus.?

 

[GHA]

You say they are all covered by the RYA courses, can you please link me to where they are, I haven't been able to find much.

A moment on google shows the RYA are a step ahead of you>>
New materials for teaching electronic navigation | Training Support Site | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

..........t, the change has provided an opportunity for us to rethink how the use of electronic navigation aids (ENAs) is taught and also what is taught.

• Teaching the use of ENAs is part of every shorebased navigation course
• Students should complete a navigation course with sufficient knowledge, understanding and ability to subsequently use the type of ENAs that are commonly found on leisure vessels
• It is more important for students to understand the features that are common to typical leisure chartplotters, not to become operators of a single system
• There should be no technological barriers to teaching the use of ENAs
• Students should appreciate why good navigators use all available and relevant sources of information

Also, seems a few omissions in your video - no mention of passage plans? With clearing bearings of hazards? So you've planned for the dodgy areas in the comfort of the anchorage..

Or no mention of satellite imagery as charts? Absolute gold dust in many areas where available charts are ancient or even not available. Opencpn makes this fairly straightforward these days, even with split screen with different chart sources.

Team Vestas didn't run aground 'because' just one thing, a whole host of errors occured, if any one hadn't they would have sailed safely onwards.. One deviation from their standard operating procedures was to review the passage plan on google earth before setting sail and have a copy of the imagery to review course changes on route, neither happened on the fateful passage and either would have meant a less fateful passage..

 

[lw395]

A lot of hot air about the nav tools.
Where things go wrong is often the planning stage.
People tend to set off with no plan or prior knowledge of the hazards they need to avoid.
Most problems are not a matter of using digital charts or paper, more a fundamental level of planning and logical operation of the boat.
But in perspective, there are fairly few accidents of any note, compared to other sport or transport.

 

[[70521]]

Well that's one man's viewpoint and some alarming conclusions on well know incidents. The Volvo boat was racing and the "Swiss Cheese" model of risk management sadly came in to play. While in the Concordia accident the captains ego took over. Considering the scale of the incident in my opinion some excellent seamanship was demonstrated and the loss of life limited.

Like many others who have commented I've done the RYA theory curriculum to Yachtmaster theory, am an associate member of the Royal Institute of Navigation and getting back up to speed on astronavigation.

With over 50 years of navigating over mountain and sea I have come to believe that there are some people who are natural navigators. In other words have a sense for where they are at any given moment while others get lost on a football pitch.

I am not a huge fan of electronic navigation, even more so as I understand a significant amount of the technology and maths that goes into it. Yes I have the kit onboard but find it faster to cast my eye over a height of tide paper calculation that fiddle with the chartplotter. added to the fact that me or somebody else will have drawn the graph and absorbed the information that it took to create. Relying on the electronic cals just gives a number. Nor am I a fan of knowing to the centimeter where my keel is.

If you have concerns then now is the time to raise the matter with all of the national training organisations and let the debate happen about what goes into the curriculum can take place with those to decide what goes in it.

 

[doug748]

No, I'm not an expert, and will never claim to be.
In my 45 years of offshore navigating, I've made plenty of mistakes, been lost and scared sometimes, and used a few too many guardian angels.
The expert is the young instructor, long on qualifications but short on sea-time, who has never made any mistakes!

And I do know the difference between raster and vector, but I've only used vector in C-Map and Navionics. But I have used raster charts in aviation, and understand how they work.

Bloody hell, tough crowd.

I enjoyed your video and thought it was a useful and entertaining reminder of all the holes you can put your foot in when navigating.


BTW - thread drift. I have a tablet but never used it for navigation - come to think of it, never used it for anything. Anyone know the easiest/cheapest way to get Navionics raster charts onto it? I am unlikely to go further than Holland in one direction and Biscay in the other.

 

[rszemeti]

Myself and my family have also done the Day Skipper theory in Australia to get our ICC's, digital navigation was hardly mentioned. It depends who you get!

Mmmmm ... you can't get (or at least are not supposed to be able to get .. ) an ICC based on the DS Theory course ... you need the DS Practical Course Completion Certificate for the ICC ...

 

[RichMac]

A moment on google shows the RYA are a step ahead of you>>
New materials for teaching electronic navigation | Training Support Site | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

No, not a step ahead, I've been campaigning for more digital training for 20 years.
But it's really good to see it happening now, it will make yachting much safer.

 

[stu9000]

Anyone know the easiest/cheapest way to get Navionics raster charts onto it? I am unlikely to go further than Holland in one direction and Biscay in the other.

The play store or the apple store.
I have the 'UK, Ireland and Holland' licence pack. This covers the French Coast down to Brest as well. Cost £34 per year.