Kedge anchor choice

[Neeves]

For those of us who are complete ignoramus, or really - maybe it is The Lucky Country

what is a:

'ground chain' - what does it do? why is it there? whose is it?

I might guess (and be correct) but I'd like to be certain.

Jonathan

 

[Deleted member 36384]

For those of us who are complete ignoramus, or really - maybe it is The Lucky Country

what is a:

'ground chain' - what does it do? why is it there? whose is it?

I might guess (and be correct) but I'd like to be certain.

Jonathan

Ground chain as I understand it is any chain lying on the seabed: a mooring's chain, abandoned chain, another yachts anchor rode, or even your own anchor chain or rode.

A fluke of the Danforth style style anchor can trap a ground chain between the fluke and shank in a scissor action and and jam up quite tightly, especially if the a link capsizes between the plat edge of the fluke and shank.

The use of a tripping line, or line attached to the tripping line point, is the best way to try and free such a fouled anchor, by inverting the anchor and hoisting it upside down.

Hope this helps.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks for that, my guess was closeish.

Ground chains are not a problem here, too expensive to leave something like that lying around.

But if the choice was an alloy kedge 'sand anchor' (that might be lost to a ground chain - but saved by a trip line), deployed from a dinghy in an extreme situation or the same holding capacity in gal - I'd chance getting the anchor caught in the ground chain. Particularly if the kedge saved the yacht - its a cheap sacrifice to saving the vessel.

To me deploying a 20kg gal anchor + its chain from a dinghy, in the dark, in weather (and you know weather better than we do) - I'd risk the 7kg Fortress (rather than the gal Bruce, CQR, Delta).

But why do people anchor where there are lots of ground chains?

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

But why do people anchor where there are lots of ground chains?

Jonathan

Many well established harbours are littered with ground chains, usually for trots of swinging moorings. In the Med they are sometimes used for semi-permanent tailed moorings to quaysides. They can indeed be a nuisance as there is little indication of where they are. There are solutions to the problem - many boats in the Med carry a special hook which you lower down your chain to pick up the obstructing chain. Often this is somebody elses anchor chain laid over yours, but it can deal with ground chain in that you can lift enough to clear your anchor.

The person who raised this issue sails (I think) in an area where ground chains are common and it is probably an issue for him. However, as I pointed out later it is not an issue for most people, unless they regularly anchor in harbours where ground chains are used.

 

[prv]

But why do people anchor where there are lots of ground chains?

Where there are lots, you don't. But it only takes one. I guess we've been using our harbours for longer than you guys so there's more junk on the bottom. Some places have power or phone cables too.

Pete

 

[Neeves]

Tranona, BlowingOldBoots and prv,

Thanks for the elucidation. Proves a number of things - you are never to old to learn, do not guess - be humble and accept a bit of education (its taken me decades to learn that one, and still trying).

Thanks.

Jonathan

 

[Kukri]

For what it's worth, there is a technique for laying out a heavy kedge from a dinghy.

Put the coil of warp in the dinghy, with the bitter end belayed aboard the boat.

Hang the kedge over the stern of the dinghy with a line made fast somewhere amidships (round the thwart), led through the ring or shackle on the anchor and back to the thwart, where you make it off with a slippery hitch.

When you get to the spot where you want to drop it, pull the slippery hitch. All done from a sitting position, all safe.

Of course, this is easiest from a rigid tender but I have done it from an Avon Redcrest a few times...

 

[prv]

For what it's worth, there is a technique for laying out a heavy kedge from a dinghy.

Getting further off the topic, my 1930s copy of the Manual of Seamanship includes instructions for rowing out the anchor of a warship! Basically the same technique, except that the boat has to be strengthened with a strongback to prevent it being crushed inwards by the wire span that's carrying the anchor, and the process of getting it from the hawsepipe to the boat is a major task in itself.

Pete

 

[vyv_cox]

For what it's worth, there is a technique for laying out a heavy kedge from a dinghy.

Put the coil of warp in the dinghy, with the bitter end belayed aboard the boat.

Hang the kedge over the stern of the dinghy with a line made fast somewhere amidships (round the thwart), led through the ring or shackle on the anchor and back to the thwart, where you make it off with a slippery hitch.

When you get to the spot where you want to drop it, pull the slippery hitch. All done from a sitting position, all safe.

Of course, this is easiest from a rigid tender but I have done it from an Avon Redcrest a few times...

My article in YM November issue says pretty much the same, although few of us lay out a kedge of the weight you are talking about. I have cleats both inside and outside the transom, from which the anchor can be suspended whilst rowing. Easy with a Fortress without the need for the slippery hitch, although I agree it could help.

 

[Kukri]

Getting further off the topic, my 1930s copy of the Manual of Seamanship includes instructions for rowing out the anchor of a warship! Basically the same technique, except that the boat has to be strengthened with a strongback to prevent it being crushed inwards by the wire span that's carrying the anchor, and the process of getting it from the hawsepipe to the boat is a major task in itself.

Pete

Danton's Seamanship - the merchant service textbook, goes further and explains how to boat off the bower anchor of a stranded merchant ship suspended under hatch beams lashed over the gunwales of two lifeboats.

Most people taking their deck officers exams read this and think "impractical - far too difficult" but I knew a man who actually did it.

He was Mate of a British liner which went aground in Manila Bay, in full view of the city's waterfront, in the Sixties. The Master had had altogether too much of a run ashore... Jim, who was an East Coast Scot, took charge of the situation and actually did boat off the port bower under the two lifeboats, using hatch beams. The Master knew his career was at and end so he retired to his cabin with a bottle - his only contribution being to insist on using the insurance wire, whereas Jim, who was sober, had already worked out that given the maximum load that the windlasses could exert he could have used cargo runners.. be that as it may, the ship was duly hauled off and the anchor returned to the hawsepipe - I worked for this company myself and we were very used to making fast to typhoon buoys in Hong Kong harbour, so hanging anchors off was routine for us all.

No wrecks and nobody drownded but much loss of corporate "face", amended by Jim's textbook demonstration...he was Fleet Manager twenty years later.

 

[Neeves]

I appreciate the theory of deploying the 20kg gal kedge from a dinghy and if everything goes correctly there should not be an issue. In practice I find 'things' seem to go pear shaped when its both raining, windy and you are in a dinghy wearing lifejacket, wet weather gear and manipulating oars and trying to stop a bucket falling over (and you've dropped the torch). The idea of lowering a lightweight but high holding capacity anchor, (Fortress, alloy Spade) has much greater attractions as you can control its drop by hand. Even getting a 20kg gal anchor, with chain, into the dinghy is not quite as easy as it sounds, nice in marina, but sadly that is not how you are going to deploy it in real life.

If the second anchor (never understood why they were called a kedge? I know why a kedge might be called a kedge but your second anchor will do more than kedging) is smaller, but man enough for the task many of the problems disappear but our second anchor is 'big enough' to be the primary - in the event we lose the one we hang on the bow roller. We have tested the alloy Spade, Fortress (and alloy Excel) and have been more than comfortable with any as a primary. The Fortress would not fit on our bow roller, which is a different issue (and, being a cat, we have an almost unique bow roller design). What the Excel and Spade demonstrate is that they are as good, setting ability and holding capacity as their heavier steel equivalents - its design not weight.

We have only used alloy anchors with a decent length, min 10m, of chain (and nylon). I'm not sure what might happen if you used just nylon, might give it a try one day.

Personally I think you need in a kedge anchor one that has an ability to set quickly under most circumstances - which really means it needs to be one of the newer designs. Its too easy when deploying from a dinghy to think the anchor is set but when you take load on the rode from the yacht find its not set at all. You then need retrieve all the rode and start again as you usually pull the kedge too close to the yacht, hoping it will set, and then the rode is too short. Most people's spare anchor is their old one and its usually been relegated to 'spare' because its useless. Anchors do not get better with age - you really need a new, modern, one as the spare.

Jonathan

 

[Kelpie]

On the matter of dinghying out a second anchor...
My own arrangement is probably nowhere near optimal, but I have a small Manson Supreme with a short length of chain and 50m of nylon all neatly packed into a small box. It was originally made up for Wayfarer cruising, but has now found a use as a very handy second anchor on the yacht. Simply chuck the box into the rubber dinghy and set off. No faffing around trailing a rope behind you.

 

[Kukri]

The idea of hanging the anchor off the stern of the dinghy and having the drop rope round the thwart is to avoid standing up in the dinghy - an activity which is more likely than most to put the oarsperson in the drink!

I believe our family record for laying a kedge, from grinding to a halt to hauling off, was set by my son in the Alde two years ago -about five minutes flat - we were towing the dinghy so he could just jump into it as it came alonhgside. (It was a sunny afternoon... )

 

[charles_reed]

I've got two kedges, a Danforth and a Delta. Both have 25m chain and 50m textile rode. The Delta is rigged as a permanent stern anchor.
I can vouch for the impossibility of freeing a fouled Danforth type anchor - both times I've had to dive for it after slipping and buoying, both times, fortunately in 4-6m of tidal waters.
If I was looking again at kedge choices I'd probably go for a Fortress, mainly because of its ease of handling due to its light weight.
I do think you want a selection of anchors for bottom types - large fluke area for soft mud or sand (best covered by the Danforth types), plough types for gravelly bottoms and a claw type for rock.
One anchor for which I have a profound respect is the Búgel - nearly all the "new generation" anchors are copies of this, but at vastly inflated prices.
As to rowing out both Danforth and Delta I just hang them on the dinghy transom, with all the bight on the floor. the textile is quite easy to row out, the chain more difficult.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I will continue to steer clear of the Fortress, the Guardian and the Danforth as a kedge anchor for one simple reason.

If any of the above anchors gets foul of a ground chain, you have "had it" - the anchor "bites" the ground chain and there is no way of freeing it - you have to cut the cable and make an insurance claim for a new anchor.

With a CQR, a Delta or a Bruce, there is a simple and well known "trick" for freeing the anchor (it's in Hiscock) which has worked every time for me.

Although I understand your sentiments, I am not sure that the disadvantages you mention outweigh the advantages of a lightweight high holding anchor like a Fortress of a Guardian. Lightweight and easily handled kedges are a positive boon compared to the alternatives.

 

[Neeves]

One anchor for which I have a profound respect is the Búgel - nearly all the "new generation" anchors are copies of this, but at vastly inflated prices.

I'm not sure how an Excel or a Boss can be considered a copy of the Bugel (which in its original version was only stainless - and thus expensive) nor that the Bugel is not a 'solid' version of a Danforth (or Fortress) with Peter Bruce's roll bar welded on.

I have no disrespect for Wasi (at all - innovative and simple - and it would have been cheap if they had gone for gal), but give Peter Bruce and Danforth-Ogg (or Fortress) at least a mention.

It would take a lot to convince me that as a kedge, of the same holding capacity (which they are), a 16kg/20kg steel anchor, Spade, Bugel, Supreme, Excel is 'better' than a 7kg alloy, Fortress, Excel, Spade.

An acid test is: Next time its cold, wet, dark and windy (and you are at anchor - or have just hit the bottom) - which would you rather deploy as your kedge - the gal or the alloy and if for some reason you have another priority - which would your better half want to deploy.

Its just another idea for an Xmas gift.

Jonathan

 

[Kukri]

Well, I certainly agree that, if you have somewhere to stow them, it is good to carry more than one type of anchor as a kedge.

There is a trick to handling a CQR which was planned by its inventor, Professor Taylor, but which seems to have been forgotten about in the intervening 75 years, during which time the "experts" have been cribbing each others' books. Splice a fathom of rope into the eye on the back of the shank. Use that to pick up the anchor, and if you use a buoy rope, bend the buoy rope to it.

No bad back, no fingers bitten by the anchor. Cost - pennies.

 

[Chris_Robb]

We also used a Fortress plus chain, we never picked up a ground chain and have never heard of anybody who has. We also had a huge Fotress to use as a storm anchor.

Well now you have!! I picked up a ground chain with a fortress in the tiny port of Navpactos in April. I had no alternative but to dive for it in 11C water temp, 4 meters down and no wetsuit. There were some 200 tourists (bank holiday weekend) watching the antics, and when I got to the surface with the anchor - there was a huge cheer!!!!.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Someone mentioned Nylon Rode earlier. You should be careful in your choice, Nylon has loads of stretch - great for shock loads, BUT if you are anchoring bows too a concrete quay, the last thing you want is all that lovely stretch. So for the Med really should be a non stretch rode

 

[Kukri]

Someone mentioned Nylon Rode earlier. You should be careful in your choice, Nylon has loads of stretch - great for shock loads, BUT if you are anchoring bows too a concrete quay, the last thing you want is all that lovely stretch. So for the Med really should be a non stretch rode

Absolutely right.

I don't think nylon is suitable for a kedge warp, for that reason - I changed to a Terylene one on the anchor for immediate use, though I still carry a long nylon job for "regular anchoring"!