KAMD 44 advice

[Greg2]

Our next boat is likely to be semi-displacement in the 38-42 feet range and the whole point of an SD hull for us would be to have the ability to cruise at anything from 7 to 18/20 knots with quite a lot of time spent at river speeds.

There is an option at the lower end of that size range fitted with twin Volvo Penta KAMD 44 EDC engines and my initial reaction is that those engines are not best suited for that type of boat and our intended useage, but am I right?

My rationale is based mainly on what I have gleaned on here over the years with the main points being:

- Kompressor cuts in at around 1200 rpm and cuts out at around 2600 rpm so anything between river speeeds and fast cruise will involve the noisy kompressor being in all the time. Leaving aside the noise (which having owned a KAD42 engined boat I know is an issue) there appear to be mixed views on whether the kompressor is intended for continual use

- At low speeds the top end of the engine doesn't get properly lubricated due to insufficient oil pressure which can, if you are unlucky, ultimately cause significant problems

- Tappets require adjustment every 200 hours and if not done can result in significant damage to the engine (okay, not an issue if looked after properly I guess but it is suggested that they are an over-complicated engine with higher service costs than some)

I know that some people fitted a cut-out switch for the kompressor on the KAD series engine but it appears from a Google search that this was okay on the 42 and early 43 variants but not on the 44 as the EDC controls the cut in and out of the kompressor as well as controlling the fuel flow.

I have also been advised that a solution to the oil flow on top of the engine is to have grooves cut with an angle grinder which enables oil to flow more freely.

Any information and comment on the above points from the panel would be much appreciated.

 

[simonfraser]

Recon you will be most comfortable pottering at 6kts (no compressor needed) or planing (when you will be on the turbo)
Noise, i have sorted the engine cover and other gaps, sealed them all with foam strips etc, much quieter, can hear the compressor clicking, but its not an issue for the short duration its on.

Yes the oil pressure is lower at low revs, if well maintained is that an issue ?

 

[Boat2016]

Assuming this is a production boat ? Was this a popular engine option for that model ? That should help show if hull and engine option are a good match

 

[oldgit]

Would have thought any trial run on your chosen boat at displacement would sort the noise issue.
On my chums Fairline Brava the racket created by pair of 42 made it almost impossible to remain seated in the cockpit at the 6 knots demanded when pottering around on the Thames.
Inside the cabin was no better.
Secondary problem was the lurching/clunking as the speed had to be constantly adjusted due to nature of boating on confined rivers.
Off shore on the flybridge at 20 knots it really was not an issue as once up on the plane most of the noise was left behind.
Engines most suited to fast offshore whizzing not so good for inshore pottering ?
Only mechanical problem seemed to be supercharger clutches failing.
Pretty certain one of our club boats a Prestige 36 with pair of KAMD 300 has had the superchargers disabled .

 

[Momac]

Our next boat is likely to be semi-displacement in the 38-42 feet range and the whole point of an SD hull for us would be to have the ability to cruise at anything from 7 to 18/20 knots with quite a lot of time spent at river speeds.

There is an option at the lower end of that size range fitted with twin Volvo Penta KAMD 44 EDC engines and my initial reaction is that those engines are not best suited for that type of boat and our intended useage, but am I right?

My rationale is based mainly on what I have gleaned on here over the years with the main points being:

- Kompressor cuts in at around 1200 rpm and cuts out at around 2600 rpm so anything between river speeeds and fast cruise will involve the noisy kompressor being in all the time. Leaving aside the noise (which having owned a KAD42 engined boat I know is an issue) there appear to be mixed views on whether the kompressor is intended for continual use

- At low speeds the top end of the engine doesn't get properly lubricated due to insufficient oil pressure which can, if you are unlucky, ultimately cause significant problems

- Tappets require adjustment every 200 hours and if not done can result in significant damage to the engine (okay, not an issue if looked after properly I guess but it is suggested that they are an over-complicated engine with higher service costs than some)

I know that some people fitted a cut-out switch for the kompressor on the KAD series engine but it appears from a Google search that this was okay on the 42 and early 43 variants but not on the 44 as the EDC controls the cut in and out of the kompressor as well as controlling the fuel flow.

I have also been advised that a solution to the oil flow on top of the engine is to have grooves cut with an angle grinder which enables oil to flow more freely.

Any information and comment on the above points from the panel would be much appreciated.

You seem to have identified the main points.

I have kad32's and , on my boat, do not need to go over the supercharger speed at river speeds . Running in the supercharger range feels like it is doing the engines no good and it feels (and is) a waste of energy.

Yanmars in my friends Broom 38 seems well matched to the boat.
.

 

[CLB]

Would have thought any trial run on your chosen boat at displacement would sort the noise issue.
On my chums Fairline Brava the racket created by pair of 42 made it almost impossible to remain seated in the cockpit at the 6 knots demanded when pottering around on the Thames.
Inside the cabin was no better.
Secondary problem was the lurching/clunking as the speed had to be constantly adjusted due to nature of boating on confined rivers.
Off shore on the flybridge at 20 knots it really was not an issue as once up on the plane most of the noise was left behind.
Engines most suited to fast offshore whizzing not so good for inshore pottering ?
Only mechanical problem seemed to be supercharger clutches failing.
Pretty certain one of our club boats a Prestige 36 with pair of KAMD 300 has had the superchargers disabled .

Superchargers should not be on at 6 knots. Anyway, isn't 6 knots a bit er, fast, for the Thames

 

[oldgit]

Superchargers should not be on at 6 knots. Anyway, isn't 6 knots a bit er, fast, for the Thames

Sorry 8kms, at what ever speed, the sound resembled a thousand nuts/bolts and nails being rotated in an out of balance washing machine with cat thrown in for good measure.
Mind you he was probably oblivious to the awful racket as he had a penchant for sharing his taste for dire euro pop with the entire river for miles around via his flybridge speakers.

 

[rustybarge]

You seem to have identified the main points.

I have kad32's and , on my boat, do not need to go over the supercharger speed at river speeds . Running in the supercharger range feels like it is doing the engines no good and it feels (and is) a waste of energy.

Yanmars in my friends Broom 38 seems well matched to the boat.
.

Just wondering if the yanmar 6pla from the early 2000's is a mechanical engine without Edc? I believe yanmar have a reputation for expensive spares, but surely an old Volvo with supercharger + turbo has the potential for a massive failure vs. The simpler Yanmar turbo set up?

 

[Whopper]

Probably one to consider; Is the boat in question a 38cl fitted with KAMD 44s? If they produce a lot of belt dust I don't think the 38CL engine room in centre lends itself to easy cleaning - compared to the more "self contained" engine rooms on sports boats with outdrives that I've seen.

If it is a 38cl you're looking at and the one I'm thinking of it does look like a nice boat alight. It might be worth a sea-trial to make sure the compressors are note kicking in at regular slower cruising speeds. I would speculate that is the only 38cl fitted with those engines although there are some 39kl's fitted with them from what I remember.

 

[volvopaul]

Probably one to consider; Is the boat in question a 38cl fitted with KAMD 44s? If they produce a lot of belt dust I don't think the 38CL engine room in centre lends itself to easy cleaning - compared to the more "self contained" engine rooms on sports boats with outdrives that I've seen.

If it is a 38cl you're looking at and the one I'm thinking of it does look like a nice boat alight. It might be worth a sea-trial to make sure the compressors are note kicking in at regular slower cruising speeds. I would speculate that is the only 38cl fitted with those engines although there are some 39kl's fitted with them from what I remember.

I've worked on the one in Horning , starboard engine blew up some years back

 

[Greg2]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, it is a Broom 38 and I don't think many were fitted withe these engines. Good point about belt dust - used to get a lot from the KAD 42's on our last boat. Oil circulation at low revs causes can cause problems over time as I understand it. Apparently Huthchins Marine do the modification. Looked into the Yanmars and would prefer them despite high prices for parts but looking for the right boat interior/condition etc with the right engines.

Think it would be okay at 6 knots but it is the 12 knot cruise that I suspect would be noisy. Interesting that a boat with the 300's might have had the kompressor disabled.

Any thoughts Volvopaul?

 

[rustybarge]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, it is a Broom 38 and I don't think many were fitted withe these engines. Good point about belt dust - used to get a lot from the KAD 42's on our last boat. Oil circulation at low revs causes can cause problems over time as I understand it. Apparently Huthchins Marine do the modification. Looked into the Yanmars and would prefer them despite high prices for parts but looking for the right boat interior/condition etc with the right engines.

Think it would be okay at 6 knots but it is the 12 knot cruise that I suspect would be noisy. Interesting that a boat with the 300's might have had the kompressor disabled.

Any thoughts Volvopaul?

Google Yanmar 6pla series 315hp engines ; there was major problems with valve failure and seized engines, not sure if the newer ones got it sorted. Also lubrication of the diesel injection pumps.

Seems Cummins is the only bullet proof choice, but no European boats except the Princess 35 and the ST34 fitted them.

 

[Greg2]

Google Yanmar 6pla series 315hp engines ; there was major problems with valve failure and seized engines, not sure if the newer ones got it sorted. Also lubrication of the diesel injection pumps.

Seems Cummins is the only bullet proof choice, but no European boats except the Princess 35 and the ST34 fitted them.

Yep, seen the stuff on the 315hp Yanmars thanks. Think it was limited to a period of time and was sorted but stand to be corrected. The 38s tend to have the 260hp so not affected.

 

[Whopper]

I think a 38cl will feel noticeably smaller inside than you current 41(?). I've tied along side the older 39 version and the 38cl is noticeably less beamier with a lower freeboard. If you're hunting around at the higher end of the 38 price range I would personally try for a 42cl if you can make it happen. If not though you won't be disappointed with a 38cl

 

[Greg2]

I think a 38cl will feel noticeably smaller inside than you current 41(?). I've tied along side the older 39 version and the 38cl is noticeably less beamier with a lower freeboard. If you're hunting around at the higher end of the 38 price range I would personally try for a 42cl if you can make it happen. If not though you won't be disappointed with a 38cl

Yes, know what you mean. The idea was to have something a little smaller than the 41 but still big enough to be comfortable and able to take family/guests. Affordability when we pack up work is also a factor.

Looked at a couple off 42's and really like them (always have) and have been tempted if the price was right but the head reminds me the original idea was to downsize a little.....

 

[rustybarge]

Yep, seen the stuff on the 315hp Yanmars thanks. Think it was limited to a period of time and was sorted but stand to be corrected. The 38s tend to have the 260hp so not affected.

Ps: I was looking on a sport fishing blog in the USA , and they mentioned that the Yanmar wasn't happy at low revs they used to troll for fish: just above idle, afaik.

The Yanmar is a twin overhead camshaft ' highly tuned engine,' so that would make sense from my somewhat limited knowledge of high lift cams in petrol engines, which have large valve overlap profiles.

 

[Somerset Jim]

From my research when buying my boat with the KAMD44 edc engines, if running at lower speeds then it is better to have the tappets checked every 50-60 hours rather than the 200 hours Volvo suggest.

If you gradually increase the revs I have found that you can delay when the superchargers kick in. On Saturday I had the engines up to around 1800 rpm without them kicking in and was doing around 9kts.

 

[Greg2]

From my research when buying my boat with the KAMD44 edc engines, if running at lower speeds then it is better to have the tappets checked every 50-60 hours rather than the 200 hours Volvo suggest.

If you gradually increase the revs I have found that you can delay when the superchargers kick in. On Saturday I had the engines up to around 1800 rpm without them kicking in and was doing around 9kts.

Interesting. What is the boat if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[Greg2]

Ps: I was looking on a sport fishing blog in the USA , and they mentioned that the Yanmar wasn't happy at low revs they used to troll for fish: just above idle, afaik.

The Yanmar is a twin overhead camshaft ' highly tuned engine,' so that would make sense from my somewhat limited knowledge of high lift cams in petrol engines, which have large valve overlap profiles.

That is interesting. Thanks.

 

[Somerset Jim]

Interesting. What is the boat if you don’t mind me asking?

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