KAD 44 injector servicing

[rlw]

Hi All,

As I prefer to er on the side of caution I am having the valves set and the injectors checked on my kad 44's in my 2001 targa 40. I purchased the boat in 2009 in Mallorca and was chequed by Aquatom of this Parish. some minor fixes like an oil leak an new exhaust elbows were fitted but the engines ran fine and checked out on the volvo computer tool. Boat has approx 350 hours on the clocks and was maintained by fairline North Majorca.
I does run a little low on revs (3500) but based on some research and experience of another forum user here I am relatively certain that the factory fitted C4 are a pitch to high especially given the heavy generator and aircon.

The injector company used by the dealer has come back saying all injectors are bad and need to be refurbished with new tips at 135€ per unit. The point of having them checked was to nip a potential problem in the butt before it bites. I'd welcome the forums feedback on a) if a diagnosis of "all are bad" is a little simple or does this happen and b) if the quoted price is sensible.

all feedback apprciated.

Rob

 

[volvopaul]

Hi All,

As I prefer to er on the side of caution I am having the valves set and the injectors checked on my kad 44's in my 2001 targa 40. I purchased the boat in 2009 in Mallorca and was chequed by Aquatom of this Parish. some minor fixes like an oil leak an new exhaust elbows were fitted but the engines ran fine and checked out on the volvo computer tool. Boat has approx 350 hours on the clocks and was maintained by fairline North Majorca.
I does run a little low on revs (3500) but based on some research and experience of another forum user here I am relatively certain that the factory fitted C4 are a pitch to high especially given the heavy generator and aircon.

The injector company used by the dealer has come back saying all injectors are bad and need to be refurbished with new tips at 135€ per unit. The point of having them checked was to nip a potential problem in the butt before it bites. I'd welcome the forums feedback on a) if a diagnosis of "all are bad" is a little simple or does this happen and b) if the quoted price is sensible.

all feedback apprciated.

Rob

I tend to find in this day and age that most diesel shops just want to fit new injector nozzles wether there bad or not. The time scale to strip and rebuild most injectors is covered in the profit from the new nozzle, well that's how it works here I'm told.

I doubt unless you have some smoke at wot it's the injectors, more like dirty intercooler matrix and worn turbos as these motors need all the boost from a turbo they can get.

When the boost drops the edc tells the pump not to fuel, where as on a non edc engine like the kad43 it black smokes as your throttle position is still at wot.

I'd be pricing them up over here as well all know Spanish prices are some what inflated over uk and central eu countries.

I'd also be asking if wot is not reached after new injectors what would be there next move to attaining the rpm the engine is designed to produce.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I'd be pricing them up over here as well all know Spanish prices are some what inflated over uk and central eu countries.

Iirc Rob moved his T40 back up to Belgium after he bought it. Fancy a trip through the tunnel VP?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[volvopaul]

Iirc Rob moved his T40 back up to Belgium after he bought it. Fancy a trip through the tunnel VP?

Cheers
Jimmy

No thanks, snowed under this side the tunnel. But thanks, still waiting for the Antibes invite.

 

[rosssavage]

Just had all 12 injector nozzles replaced on my 61A's. Pop pressure and spray pattern test post nozzle replacement, for £46.17 inc vat per injector. Work done by Thames Valley Electro Diesel, no connection, happy customer.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

No thanks, snowed under this side the tunnel. But thanks, still waiting for the Antibes invite.

Maybe you should do a european tour?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[volvopaul]

Just had all 12 injector nozzles replaced on my 61A's. Pop pressure and spray pattern test post nozzle replacement, for £46.17 inc vat per injector. Work done by Thames Valley Electro Diesel, no connection, happy customer.

That's cheap, are you sure they are all new nozzles for that much, nozzle price from Bosch is over £40 ex vat.

 

[tinkicker0]

Just had all 12 injector nozzles replaced on my 61A's. Pop pressure and spray pattern test post nozzle replacement, for £46.17 inc vat per injector. Work done by Thames Valley Electro Diesel, no connection, happy customer.

Jeeze I need to get in on this marine malarkey. 46 large ones just for testing one after a nozzle change

Now where did I put me jewellers rouge.....

 

[volvopaul]

Jeeze I need to get in on this marine malarkey. 46 large ones just for testing one after a nozzle change

Now where did I put me jewellers rouge.....

I think Ross means £46 per injector with new nozzle fitted.

 

[jrudge]

I can try and find the number, but a friend of mine with a V42 Princess had a pump failure that put carp down the fuel lines and wiped out all the injectors. The boat was in Spain, but he bought them back here and got them repaired I think by a truck engineering company and from memory it was about £15 an injector, but I cant be sure. Will text him and see what he comes back with.

 

[crazy4557]

I've just had all 12 injectors removed and checked over. Apparently they all needed refurbishing and the total cost was £1600+ by a main dealer. Reason for the checking is my engines kad44's refuse to rev over 3500 all of a sudden..

Guess what...after being charged all that money absolutely no difference whatsoever and these guys are meant to be engineer's!!!
Still have engines fighting to rev over 3.5k

 

[rosssavage]

VP - yup, absolutely. Removed and installed them myself, definitely new nozzles. Got piccies to prove, cept I can't upload on my iPad. Will show when next on pc.

TVED assure me they're oe Bosch nozzles - they do a LOT of truck and bus business (reading based company) so maybe buy in bulk prices?

 

[Portofino]

Hi everyone ,
This injector tip ( pulling/ servicing ) Voluntarily or advised by a " quiet" marine engineer , in marine diesels makes no rational sence to me .
Car diesels its almost unheard off even up to 150 000 miles +
Same for farmers tractors 8-10 000 hours +
And volvo trucks 1 m kilometre +
All filling up many times , sometimes inadvertantley with so called " dodgy" fuel
Do we hear of injector probs - erh NOPE!
I would be gratefully if someone could rationalise this please
350 hrs not run in ??

 

[rosssavage]

Before and after. £277 for six from TVED. Note: just nozzles replaced, not entire injector!!

 

[rlw]

Thanks for all the replies.

VP the engines ran fine. No smoke at WOT and after owning 2 boats with ad41's my gut feel was that it was just weight cousing it not to rev past 3500. In mallorca Tom got it up to 3700 with the hood up and empty. Since then I have added a tender and cruising gear for a family of 4 so I don't think there is anything wrong. A guy that fixed the gennie for me provided 2 bottles of spray cleaner to run throught the air intakes to clean the aftercooler. Difficult to see if it did any good. The boat actually runs fine from an accelaration perspective. No smoke. My only concern is that I read a lot that it the engine needs to see 3900 WOT to be healthy.

I guess I should have left them. Just did not want to scimp and pay the price later.
I think the money would have been spent better on a set of C3 props. That said as they are out I guess they might as wel have them done.

I know what you mean about inflated prices in Majorca. I had wild dreams of keeping it in the med for a few months untill I heard the prices. I currently pay 1500 € a year mooring in holland and in Puerto Pollenca it cost that per month. That said seeing all the blue water pics on this forum does make me hope I will have the time and money to enjoy a boat in the med a some point in life.

Rob

 

[Yabs]

Revs

Hi Rob,

I'm unable to comment on the injectors, however regarding the revs I have had exactly the same issue with my Targa 40 (2001 & kad 44s) was only getting 3500 rpm, with b4 props, after advice from local vp dealer, and check on prop size programme I fitted c3 props which now give 3900rpm wot. Likewise mine has a generator, aircon etc.

Regards

Yabs

 

[Latestarter1]

Hi everyone ,
This injector tip ( pulling/ servicing ) Voluntarily or advised by a " quiet" marine engineer , in marine diesels makes no rational sence to me .
Car diesels its almost unheard off even up to 150 000 miles +
Same for farmers tractors 8-10 000 hours +
And volvo trucks 1 m kilometre +
All filling up many times , sometimes inadvertantley with so called " dodgy" fuel
Do we hear of injector probs - erh NOPE!
I would be gratefully if someone could rationalise this please
350 hrs not run in ??

Volvo Penta and MAN appear to be unique in the industry having sheduled injector change out for their marine diesels with PLI systems. I have always thought this odd, as in other applications conventional PLI injectors are a 'fix as fail' item and often last out to life to engine overhaul.

In general applications closed tip injectors only become damaged due to passing contaminated fuels.

The OP was well and truly shafted by being charged astronomical rebuild price in Euro's.

For years golden rule for injector re-build was smidge over £40 for GENUINE Bosch tip and just over £20 for CAV rebuild with GENUINE tips. Recently CAV pricing has tripled and Bosch pricing has remained stable. However market has been flooded with aftermarket injector components from Italy, Far East and India. Italian stuff is OK, Far East is of variable quality and Indian is junk. I have a clear rule with pump shops i.e confirmation that injectors are rebuilt with GENUINE Bosch tips.

Note to Tinkicker.....Keep your jewellers rouge in your toolbox, modern Bosch injector tips do not respond to lapping in, DAF reconditioning plant in Belgium was in all sorts of trouble about 12 years ago by doing just that. You are on a big loser, as you can never provide genuine rebuilt Bosch components at prices bus companies prepared to pay!

Two rules: Keep fuel spotless and ensure fuel system components if required are genuine.