JW's Upgrades for 2016 - Tender

[Hurricane]

I would also sugest the "deflating " solution, and check the exact position / limits with the Novu in situ, before designing a gliding mechanism.

Mike, are you sure that the FB overhang can handle the extra weight, and the CG is more to the back, ... ?
we have placed supporting poles under the overhang as you know, just to be sure

remembers me to this possible solution to fit a bigger tender on a P65; I found during my pre Blue Angel boat search ,
AndyMac will remember this one very well ;-)

Weight isn't a problem - we have those poles built in - in fact, they go right through to the hull inside the lazerette.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks everyone.
I think I've been suffering from "not seeing the wood from the trees".
Deflating the tubes - so simple.
I really hadn't seen that idea - I've been looking too hard.
It is great to bounce these ideas off each other.
Even like the tilting idea

The simplest approach is to make a fixed set of chocks and then have a go at fitting them with the tender's port and bow tubes deflated.
Once in place, I can then work out the best procedure.
I like JFM's idea about having a notch cut as a rest but it might be too difficult to find it during the dinghy lift process.

An "pre wired" electric pump would probably be a good idea anyway.

I think I would keep the crane attached with a slack crane rope until the Novurania has been properly tied down.

I'll report back in the new year with the final solution and some pics.

 

[benjenbav]

Could the lift arm be set up to rotate the tender 10-15 degrees along its longitudinal axis until clear of the crane body and then bring it level. Maybe using a suitably offset cam follower?

 

[MapisM]

I like JFM's idea about having a notch cut as a rest but it might be too difficult to find it during the dinghy lift process.

It'll be easier that you'd think, I guess.
Don't forget that it's just the bow you're interested in, and it has the advantage of a) being lighter than the stern, and b) having a deeper V in the hull (i.e. more self-centering).
If you raise the tender just enough to keep its keel slightly above the upper part of the chocks, by hand you can gently push the bow down and sideways, till you feel that the keel is in the notch.
At that point, you can lower the cable a bit more, and leave the tender on that temporary position for as long as necessary.
Easier done than said, probably. :encouragement:

 

[BartW]

here is the dingy roller cradle set from H+B,
with the right support (teak?) on the FB floor and border, this would be a solution.
I'm pritty shure they can deliver that without the adjustable shocks; in the drawing above the pics, is another type of shocks on the roller system
I have the h+B adjustable shocks on BA, but without the roller system

 

[Hurricane]

here is the dingy roller cradle set from H+B,
with the right support (teak?) on the FB floor and border, this would be a solution.
I'm pritty shure they can deliver that without the adjustable shocks; in the drawing above the pics, is another type of shocks on the roller system
I have the h+B adjustable shocks on BA, but without the roller system

Thanks Bart
Thats an interesting post
How well does the Novurania fit into the adjustable chocks?

 

[BartW]

How well does the Novurania fit into the adjustable chocks?

TBH it doesn't fit very well, you have to "aim" very well when liting the platform,
on the fly I have perfectly fitting teak schoks, and want to have them also for the hi-lo platform
but at the time the reason we bought these with the hilo mechanism, was because I knew I was going to change the tender, and we have also tried different positions with the boat,
(engine on P or SB, and boat more to P or SB, and check interference with passerel, and dive gear, etc...)
with these adjustable schoks, we could test all the positions, and now we know the preferred position
I might try to "readjust" the schoks one more time

I do like the fitting on the platform, quick, efficient and easy

H+B is going to Mets Amsterdam, and Boot Dusseldorf, if you go to one of these exhibitions,
I can asc them to bring this roller system for showing

 

[MapisM]

here is the dingy roller cradle set from H+B

A very solid solution judging by the pics, well spotted!
In Hurricane's boots, if a sliding system is really necessary for him, I'd definitely look at that, rather than build something out of tracks+cars.
Otoh, that roller cradle is clearly targeted at raising the tender on the hi/low part of the swim platform, moving it forward after lifting the platform, to exploit all the available space in the fixed part of the platform.
Hurricane's need is rather different/simpler, and I'd still prefer a solution not involving any sliding mechanism, if possible.

 

[BartW]

today at Mets I took a few pics of H+B's roller cradle,

its a slider on SS rollers, glyding in a wide U shaped profile,
you can have it at any length you need
with fixed or adjusteable choks, or just the slider alone without choks
at has a easy lock system, that can be released by pulling a rope

I have no connection with H+B apart from a happy customer, and nice folks to deal with

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks Bart

That does seem to be an answer.
Currently, though, I'm thinking of just going down the simple JFM style block method.

It might all be pointless anyway.
I'm having problems getting Nautical Ventures to reply to my emails.
I've tried lots of different ways of sending emails but they just don't respond.
Very unprofessional.
I just don't feel like a customer.
Going to phone them in the morning.
Jez send me a link to a second hand 400DL but I'm going to stick with the 430DL.

 

[MapisM]

M, just a thought: as you surely remember, I was really impressed by the 430 this summer, after cruising in some serious (for a tender) sea.
So much so, that I can't help thinking that the 400 can't be MUCH worse.
I mean, of course size matters, particularly on a tender, and I perfectly understand your wish to go as large as possible.
But I just had a look at the 400/430 specs, and I'd be surprised if their behaviour at sea would be radically different (as opposed to the 460, that seems a different animal).
And considering also its placement on JW, I would bet that in daily use you might appreciate the advantages of those 30/10 cm less (length/width) more than their disadvantages - if any...
As I said, just a thought!

 

[Hurricane]

M, just a thought: as you surely remember, I was really impressed by the 430 this summer, after cruising in some serious (for a tender) sea.
So much so, that I can't help thinking that the 400 can't be MUCH worse.
I mean, of course size matters, particularly on a tender, and I perfectly understand your wish to go as large as possible.
But I just had a look at the 400/430 specs, and I'd be surprised if their behaviour at sea would be radically different (as opposed to the 460, that seems a different animal).
And considering also its placement on JW, I would bet that in daily use you might appreciate the advantages of those 30/10 cm less (length/width) more than their disadvantages - if any...
As I said, just a thought!

Thanks for the comment
The link that Jez sent me was for a 400 that is a few years old and with just a 50HP
Probably OK but I've set my heart on the 430 and am quite a long way down that route now.
I already have the dock for a 430 (the correct size etc) here in the UK - ready to take to SC.

Doesn't rule out the alternative though.

 

[jfm]

I must say, in my book the 430 is significantly better than 400. Lots of boats on my quay have the 400 and when you see the 430/400 together the 430 is clearly the king of the 24m yacht tender hill, imho
Sorry to hear Hurricane that nautical Ventures are being difficult. Very odd, because a couple of years ago they were a delight to buy from (Renee McCullers handled my transaction)

 

[Hurricane]

I must say, in my book the 430 is significantly better than 400. Lots of boats on my quay have the 400 and when you see the 430/400 together the 430 is clearly the king of the 24m yacht tender hill, imho
Sorry to hear Hurricane that nautical Ventures are being difficult. Very odd, because a couple of years ago they were a delight to buy from (Renee McCullers handled my transaction)

Thanks for that encouragement.
Yep it is Renee who isn't replying - I'll keep on bashing on.
I think it will be worth it in the end

 

[jfm]

...but if you are thinking of the 400 then Essex have this for sale on brokerage in Mallorca. http://www.boats.co.uk/boats-for-sale/novurania-400dl-1334. It is 2008 and is owned by a good friend of mine (and has been since new) so I know first hand that it is totally genuine, comes from good home, and good history etc.

 

[Hurricane]

...but if you are thinking of the 400 then Essex have this for sale on brokerage in Mallorca. http://www.boats.co.uk/boats-for-sale/novurania-400dl-1334. It is 2008 and is owned by a good friend of mine (and has been since new) so I know first hand that it is totally genuine, comes from good home, and good history etc.

Yep - that was the one Jez sent me a link to.
I'm definitely still working on the 430 though but that one has a little knock on its starboard bow.
Actually, that material looks a little brittle?????

 

[Hurricane]

Just spoken to Renee over the phone.
It seems that there has been some kind of email breakdown.
Phew!!
Boat is nearly ready to ship - should be doing the final paperwork this week.
They will be sending pics before I send the final payment.
I will post them on here as soon as I have them - some people might find them interesting.

So, it looks like a 430 then

 

[BartW]

Just spoken to Renee over the phone.
It seems that there has been some kind of email breakdown.
Phew!!
Boat is nearly ready to ship - should be doing the final paperwork this week.
They will be sending pics before I send the final payment.
I will post them on here as soon as I have them - some people might find them interesting.

So, it looks like a 430 then

is that still Renee, ?
I'm not pleased to say that I had very bad experience with her when I bought my 430 >2year ago
very slow reaction or answers to my mails,
many faulty promisses about delivery, and a long delay.
eventually,
from the moment they had the rib at Nautical ventures, and they send me pics,
all went quick and smooth

 

[MapisM]

I must say, in my book the 430 is significantly better than 400.

Just curious, did you have a chance to try both, or to get reliable feedbacks from someone who did? Mind, I'm sure it can only be better, but my doubt is how much, in practice?
In fact, my last comment above was just based on a pretty impressive seatrial of the 430 this summer, together with a pinch of salt in comparing its specs with those of the 400.
And I still struggle to understand why the 430 should be significantly better.
Yep, of course the 400 is smaller, but we're talking of 30cm length and 10cm width difference. With exactly the same layout, equipment, tubes size and chambers.
I would understand if you'd have said that the 460 is better than the 430, 'cause the former is much wider (30cm), has 5 air chambers (vs. 3 on the 400/430), larger tubes diameter, larger and taller bench, and even a water tank. But the 400 and the 400, on paper, look much more similar.
Besides, I'm sure you're right in saying that the 430 looks great on 24m boats, but I suspect the opposite will be true for JW.
Not that I'd be much concerned about the look, in Hurricane's boots - and I don't think he is, either.
But there are also obvious practical advantages in not stretching the tender size too much OTT vs. the mother ship...
Anyway, all academic if the 430 is already on its way - all the best to Hurricane for the final arrangements and installation! :encouragement:

 

[jfm]

Yep - that was the one Jez sent me a link to.
I'm definitely still working on the 430 though but that one has a little knock on its starboard bow.
Actually, that material looks a little brittle?????

It's a B section grey rubbery fender strip and isn't brittle at all. Yep, that is an unfortunate knock. I don't know who they did it (I can ask!). You would want to replace the whole B strip right around the boat, which is quite a big job and off the cuff I'd bet €1500 + hassle in the Med. Pity. A bit academic anyhow