Just how bad are these keel bolts?

[Ric]

I had a look over a Jeanneau 29.2 for a friend - the keel bolts have a lot of rust stains around them and cracks in the gel coat around them. However, after I prised off a bit of gel coat, the cracks do appear fairly superficial.

The one good one you see in the photo set is the front bolt, which is in a drier part of the bilge.

What do you reckon?

 

[V1701]

I think if it were me I'd want to replace them & as such would be more concerned about getting them out and dropping the keel than about the keel becoming loose or falling off! Why the bilge is so wet to allow this to happen in the first place is a question I'd like answering, the bilges in these boats are normally pretty dry nearly all the time. My last boat (1989 Jeanneau Sun Dream 28) had dry bilges nearly all the time and the keel bolts were glassed in. I'm afraid I'd be tempted to carry on looking around but I don't think it's reason enough not to buy if your friend really likes it...

 

[[10753]]

If as DJ Breeze says that his bolts on his Jeanneau were glassed in, you have to ask yourself why these are exposed ?

 

[Ric]

Having examined carefully the gel coat, I think that they were glassed in originally. However, for whatever reason, water has got to them and the rust has opened up the gel coat and glass around the bolts, making the appearance possibly worse than the actual structural condition.

 

[Boathook]

I used to think nothing of a bit of rust on the surface of a s/s bolt but having removed one earlier this year it had corroded from 6mm to 1mm in the middle hidden bit. Only found out when it sheared on trying to remove it. Hopefully the picture works.

 

[Seajet]

I agree with DJBreeze, I'd want to replace the bolts; but I find it hard to believe all the bolt heads have split off their grp, I might be a little suspicious too...

Probably nothing devious, but I can't say I'd be overjoyed to find bolts like that.

 

[mitiempo]

Is the keel iron or lead?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I think if it were me I'd want to replace them & as such would be more concerned about getting them out and dropping the keel than about the keel becoming loose or falling off! Why the bilge is so wet to allow this to happen in the first place is a question I'd like answering, the bilges in these boats are normally pretty dry nearly all the time. My last boat (1989 Jeanneau Sun Dream 28) had dry bilges nearly all the time and the keel bolts were glassed in. I'm afraid I'd be tempted to carry on looking around but I don't think it's reason enough not to buy if your friend really likes it...

I'd tend to agree .... where is the water coming from and is it salt or fresh?

Does it really have to be this boat? Is it especially cheap? How many of the same model has he seen? Are they all like that?

If he likes the boat then I'd be tempted to advise keep on looking for another with dry bilges and clean bolts.

 

[Giblets]

Is it possible that the boat has been "grounded" at some time in it's life and the shock has flexed and cracked the gel coating over the keel bolts?

 

[Norman_E]

To me the real issue is not whether the exposed parts of the studs and nuts are corroded, but whether the studs screwed into the iron keel are corroded. If the boat is in the water you cannot see if there is rust showing at the keel/hull joint, and without withdrawing at least one stud you cannot tell whether their condition is a matter for real concern. I would look at other boats of the same type and age. For what its worth the keel bolts on my larger Jeanneau are glassed in, and none show rust like that.

 

[haydude]

They look bad, really bad considering that they might have rusted inside as well.

Two options:

1) Drop the keel and replace them (very, very expensive)
2) Clean, paint, cover with epoxy, weather the patch with some oil and dirt so that a surveyor would not notice is a new patch and sell the boat (prefarably in the French market) before the keel falls off.

 

[jfkal]

What to do?

First find the source of the water. It it is sea water I'd suspect a grounding and the water rising up past the bolts (Not good, but not a deal breaker either). It is good that the bolts are exposed. Mine where glassed in and looked fine. After I chiseled them open they looked like yours and were wet. But even then the bolts were still good. NEVER use SS bolts (see the picture in the other post) they waste away silently due to oxygen starvation and also work harden....
Best would be to draw and inspect them or change them right away to be on the safe side.
Spray the news ones, once in place, with cold galvanizing paint and keep the bilge dry.
On next haul-out inspect the keel-hull joints for any weeping. If there is,remove any visible sealant, let it dry and apply sealant again. Or if cost is not an issue, drop the keel and reseal properly.

 

[William_H]

Keel Bolts

The bolts will need to be removed for checking or replacement. If you are considering buying the boat why not try to get permission to start the process by trying to remove the nuts and or the studs. You will quickly decide if you want to proceed or abandon the bolts and the boat.

People do use X ray (Radiography) to examine keel bolts. This is a specialist job by a radiography company (also known as Non destructive testing or NDT.) Find a company familiar with keel bolts.
It requires that a source of X rays be mounted on the side of the hull above the keel and the plate be mounted on the other side. (or a variation angled down ward) The picture should show if there is any wasting of the bolts in the fibreglass above the keel. Obviously this requires the boat out of the water and much depends on the thickness of fibreglass to be "looked" through. ie a flat bottomed boat may be no good however one with a stub of hull above the keel is good. Really this testing is not very good but does mean you don't have to remove the bolts. good luck olewill

 

[westernman]

They look bad, really bad considering that they might have rusted inside as well.

Two options:

1) Drop the keel and replace them (very, very expensive)
2) Clean, paint, cover with epoxy, weather the patch with some oil and dirt so that a surveyor would not notice is a new patch and sell the boat (prefarably in the French market) before the keel falls off.

Under laws of most European countries in case of (2) you would be liable if anything happened or if the new owner found out what you had done.

In any case it is morally reprehensible.
I hope you forgot the smiley and were not seriously recommending this.

 

[GAJ]

It certainly wants a double coat of looking at if your friend is interested in buying.

I see that there are stress cracks in the vertical walls of the floors that are visible in some of the pics, far too many for comfort, in 201 they appear to be radiating from the top which would indicate that there has been a grounding. This should be investigated further as this could be more of an issue that keel bolts. As this type of keel area damage is an everday occurance on this style of boat there must be a repairer within striking distance who, perhaps, for a few bob would turn out to have a look for you.

The bolts are often just painted with flowcoat rather than being glassed in with matting and if that is the case even a small amount of rust will pop off the brittle resin, this is not uncommon.

It looks as though the studs and nuts are the usual Medium carbon steel used by the French manufaturers. If so they rust very easily and can look very much worse than they really are, I have pulled some that looked absolutely past it, only to find the bit that did the work to be in fine fettle. Pulling and inspecting the bolts/studs is usually managable one way or another. The studs can sometimes be pulled by double/treble nutting and using a blooming great lever arm on the spanner/socket/stilson. A blob of weld on top of the nut and stud works well if the double nut fails. Make sure the boat is on the hard first though

The replacement bolts are as cheap as chips really, if they are steel don't think you are doing the right thing by replacing them with stainless which just ain't as strong

But the fact is is just doesn't look right does it?

 

[Heckler]

I had a look over a Jeanneau 29.2 for a friend - the keel bolts have a lot of rust stains around them and cracks in the gel coat around them. However, after I prised off a bit of gel coat, the cracks do appear fairly superficial.

The one good one you see in the photo set is the front bolt, which is in a drier part of the bilge.

What do you reckon?

I wouldnt worry about them, the gel has cracked because the superficial rust has expanded and forced the gel coat off. Rust = Fe2O3, therefore one part of iron becomes 5 parts of rust (simplistically speaking!) which means it takes up more space, which means it forces the gel coat off and it cracks. You will find, as others on here have done, that if you draw the bolt, the tightness has kept the air and water away from the through stud and all is well. I have just done mine, they looked like sh it but tapping with a screwy got the flakes of rust off, then a wire brush got them looking nice and a coat of kurust followed by smooth hemmerite has made them look like new. In the olden days when modern sealants werent about and hulls were made of wood the bolts could be a prob but looking at yours I would clean them up and paint them. Job done.
Stu

 

[Martin_J]

I had a 1999 SO29.2 and the keel bolts were not glassed over.... if however they had been painted or gelcoated over at a later date then it's fairly likely that this would have just peeled off like you are seeing.

As skipper stu says... rust expands just like flaky pastry. I have seen studs/nuts like this and when cleaned up the original 36mm (for example) fits the nut perfectly. As regards to cleaning up the threads.. you'll spend ages with a wire brush. Try a die-nut.. it would just wind on and you'll end up with a thread looking like new.

If the hull/keel joint looks clean from the outside then the studs will probably be clean as well - mild steel really does look bad when it rusts.

I just hacksawed a shackle off the anchor chain that looked so rusty I thought it was going to fall off... turns out the metal was still 99.9% there and the rust was just a coating on the surface (but it still looked terrible).

 

[Ric]

, far too many for comfort, in 201 they appear to be radiating from the top which would indicate that there has been a grounding.

The nut that is in best condition (third from bottom in the pics) is the front nut. If the boat had been grounded, would not this nut have the worst signs of cracking around it?

 

[Giblets]

The nut that is in best condition (third from bottom in the pics) is the front nut. If the boat had been grounded, would not this nut have the worst signs of cracking around it?

Not if she came off the back of a passing wave in a following sea. The rear of the keel would hit first. Could always ask the seller if the boat has ever been grounded.

 

[Ric]

I had a surveryor poke around this morning. His view was (as advised by some on the thread) that it was nothing to worry about. The front and back bolts are both fine, which would likely show the most damage if the boat had been badly grounded. His view was that the corrosion around the centre bolts was due to the bolts being sealed in with gel coat, causing the rust to expand and crack the surrounding gel coat. His advice was just to clean them up, treat them with an anti-corrosion compound, and leave them exposed to the air.