lw395
Well-Known Member
Or when it would be unsafe to do tea and bacon sandwiches on the committee boat.
just cancelled Sunday's race
- Thread starter wotayottie
- Start date
Or when it would be unsafe to do tea and bacon sandwiches on the committee boat.
lw395
Well-Known Member
It depends on whether it's supposed to be yacht racing for offshore boats or dayboat racing.
If you want a fleet of boats that can do the Fastnet, you can't have a culture of staying ashore 'because there might be a bit of F7'.
It's a tough line to draw sometimes.
Especially when you've got some older boats that are fine in F6 with a bit of F7 but not very handy in F2.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Yes, it does depend upon the fleet, but a 30 something foot cruiser racer should be able to race in 30 Knots +. If they don't want to put the kite up they don't have to.
I pretty regularly recommend racing as a learning route on newbie threads. It's by far the safest way to gain experience of strong winds as part of a large crew with a number of senior crew who have been there done that. Makes it far easier for them when caught out later without the back up. Of course, I'm always outvoted by those who just say do it and learn the hard way.
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
Some of you are missing the point. It isnt a question of what the boats can do so much as what a lawyer can say in court and what an insurance company will cover. If we ignore the advice from the RYA, which is advice the courts will listen to as Expert, and we have an accident with a no win no fee lawyer involved then we can get a big bill and an insurance company who refuses further cover. Thats assuming that plod doesnt get involved, which is always possible if there are deaths
A club just down the channel from here had a similar experience a couple of years back. OK it didnt go right to the end game but it could have. They got heavy fines both club and officer involved.
A club just down the channel from here had a similar experience a couple of years back. OK it didnt go right to the end game but it could have. They got heavy fines both club and officer involved.
Judders
Well-Known Member
You know what? If that is the case then it's absolutely fine by me. The Race Committee give up most of their Sunday or sometimes the whole weekend to volunteer to come and bob around in an anchored boat so that I can go racing. If there is a minimum level of comfort or maximum level of discomfort that they have to endure so that we can have our fun then I really do not have a problem with that.
lw395
Well-Known Member
That's good because elevenses are non-negotiable.
I have found in my limited involvement wth race management, that in club racing, the people who are moaning most about cancelling for bad conditions are exactly those who the RO doesn't want to be taking responsibility for.
In theory, it should always be solely down to the skipper whether to race.
But yacht racing seems to be getting more and more like dinghy racing with big toys and big kids.
Kerenza
Well-Known Member
As its looking likely that tomorrow's race will also be cancelled, here's another two pennarth.
Our previous, very experienced, PRO would always say, I don't worry so much about the wind, you can always reef down. it's the resulting sea state which catches people out.
So with 30 knts we can be looking locally at any sea state imaginable, from flat upwards, particularly when racing over a tide.
The other thing I always consider is the ratio of gust to average.
There's a big difference in 25 gusting 35 (doable) and 15 gusting 30 which can be very dangerous with rounding up etc.
M
Our previous, very experienced, PRO would always say, I don't worry so much about the wind, you can always reef down. it's the resulting sea state which catches people out.
So with 30 knts we can be looking locally at any sea state imaginable, from flat upwards, particularly when racing over a tide.
The other thing I always consider is the ratio of gust to average.
There's a big difference in 25 gusting 35 (doable) and 15 gusting 30 which can be very dangerous with rounding up etc.
M
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I ask in total ignorance, but shouldn't any conventional yacht describable as a 'cruiser-racer' be able to reach its top speed under spinnaker in a steady 20-knot breeze? Isn't that same maximum likely to be possible without the kite, in a steady thirty knots?
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
You have to take account on boats being able to surf / plane. However, there's absolutely nothing to stop a boat racing deciding to reef or deciding not to hoist their spinnaker.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
So far on this thread the only RYA advice quoted (by Nabb) is along the lines that some boats can get into trouble above 25 knots. It's a very big step to take that to no boats may be allowed to race above 25 knots (I think the OP's post refered to gusts over 30).
If you know of other more detailed advice from the RYA please post it.
Snifter
Well-Known Member
Well, we raced yesterday with a forecast of over 30kt gusts.
Only 4 boats decided to go out. My syndicate decided not for fear of damage, and also the difficulty of getting off and on the moorings, so I crewed on another Impala to get them up to 6 on board.
Well, we did have problems getting off the mooring, a fair amount of damage, mainly because we flew the kite on each run, and had a massive wipeout on the last but one leg. Then the outboard packed up as we were coming in. We were then blowing rapidly on to a lee shore, so rehoisted the jib in a hurry, but twisted the top round the forestay as we gybed to get away from the shore, ripping the batten pocket. We then sailed in and on to the jetty under jib, having radioed ahead to have helpers there to catch ropes. The OOD reported maximum gust speeds of 40 in the race hut, but it was very up and down, often around 15 to 20, then big squalls came through.
The other boats survived, one losing a forestay, but catching the mast, and the other two played it safe and were well reeled with well bagged spinnakers!
We all had a wonderful race, and were very glad we went out.
Only 4 boats decided to go out. My syndicate decided not for fear of damage, and also the difficulty of getting off and on the moorings, so I crewed on another Impala to get them up to 6 on board.
Well, we did have problems getting off the mooring, a fair amount of damage, mainly because we flew the kite on each run, and had a massive wipeout on the last but one leg. Then the outboard packed up as we were coming in. We were then blowing rapidly on to a lee shore, so rehoisted the jib in a hurry, but twisted the top round the forestay as we gybed to get away from the shore, ripping the batten pocket. We then sailed in and on to the jetty under jib, having radioed ahead to have helpers there to catch ropes. The OOD reported maximum gust speeds of 40 in the race hut, but it was very up and down, often around 15 to 20, then big squalls came through.
The other boats survived, one losing a forestay, but catching the mast, and the other two played it safe and were well reeled with well bagged spinnakers!
We all had a wonderful race, and were very glad we went out.
Judders
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of an Impala Nationals race a few years ago. We were in second with half a run and a short beat to go. 30+knots and no kite up. "There are kites going up behind us, maybe we should?"
My reply: "We're doing eleven F#%king knots on an Impala WIll, how much faster do you bloody want to go?"
We finished second.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Except machismo I suppose, or the fear that prudence may appear to indicate lack of balls. But I see what you mean, thanks.
Maybe that's a good example of why clubs are reluctant to encourage races in F7+?
flaming
Well-Known Member
The most satisfying feeling in sailing is getting the decision to hoist or not right... Which ever way you decide!
We've not hoisted in 30kts and been glad when the fleet wiped out all over the place, but we've also hoisted in 30kts when others didn't and surfed past boats under main and jib and made places. A lot of the time I think it's a confidence thing. If you really know that you can get the kite up and down safely in these conditions, and that your helm and trimmers can keep the boat under the kite, then why not?
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
It shouldn't be about machismo. You either know that the helm and crew can work the spinnaker as a team or you don't. If the skipper is continually shouting instructions at the trimmers you're not ready for heavy weather. But if you can handle the kite, then you can fly it in 5 knots more than you have before and if that works go a little further next time. If not, work out what you did wrong and how to avoid it in future.
And just going with white sails can work as well as hoisting if you don't have confidence with the spinnaker, especially for short downwind legs. What you lose in speed you can gain in the reduced risk of errors during the hoist/drop.
TallBuoy
Well-Known Member
Sorry for being a bit late to this.
We're the same in Lymington.
As our yacht race committee boats are borrowed from members, with 6 other volunteers on board, as RO I am more concerned about their safety and ability to function. The sailors can make their own decisions.
And it's not all about wind speed. Tide and hence sea state are also major factors.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I'm convinced! I'll use that in future to explain why I haven't hoisted the kite in four years of owning the boat. :encouragement:
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
Long ago I learned that racing in confined area with shortish legs, it was a winner not to raise the kite when others did so. At our skill levels, it was almost guaranteed that people would have problems or delays hoisting or dropping or gybing and unless the run was a decent length the gain from increased speed under kite was more than lost by the cock ups.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Jeez, don't tell me that! I've spent the last four months dreaming of spring, and how my boat will fly when I finally hoist the kite.
Very sad, if after all that trouble (and with more than double the sail area), she doesn't go any faster.
Judders
Well-Known Member
She will do, up to about 25kts. After that we've won good quality races with a poled out headsail, partly because we have sailed deeper and partly because our broaches were less frequent and less time consuming.