Just been quoted £2000 for engine fire extinguisher….sound about right?

[petem]

Presently HFC227EA (the base component of FM200) is one of the HFC class of fluorinated gases being phased down as part of the F Gas Directive issued in 2014.

But it is important to note that unlike Halon (and similarly R22 and R12 before it) HFC227EA is not being banned from active use, but with a F Gas GWP rating of 3220 it is banned from new applications. It remains perfectly legal to continue to use this in a working system.

The important thing to understand and check is that the cylinder weight has not reduced. With any amount of liquid product (can't use the word refrigerant in this context !) remains in the cylinder then the gauge pressure will sit in the green.

So if it is clean, and of the correct weight plus the gauge sits in the green simply log that these checks have been carried out by a competent person, and this should satisfy the Insurance company. Simply replacing this with an inordinately priced replacement is not as necessary as some would have you believe.

Indeed the fridge on my new to me boat is still working perfectly well, and indeed perfectly legally upon R12, and until is stops working I am not changing the thing.

How would you define a competent person?

Another factor is local regulations, which in Spain require the Fire Extinguisher to be serviced every x years. Whether that applies to UK flagged vessels is another debating point.

I don't know if people remember but I have the same extinguisher on our boat as DavidJ. I was recommended a local company would could service it in Spain for a couple of hundred €. When they turned up they were clearly bemused by the system and accidentally discharged the FE when they were removing it. As the old one had a bit of surface rust on it and it being over 10 years old I couldn't find anyone to re-fill it. Hence I had to buy a new one. So my advice is to avoid messing about with these things at the start of your holiday!

 

[DavidJ]

How would you define a competent person?

Another factor is local regulations, which in Spain require the Fire Extinguisher to be serviced every x years. Whether that applies to UK flagged vessels is another debating point.

I don't know if people remember but I have the same extinguisher on our boat as DavidJ. I was recommended a local company would could service it in Spain for a couple of hundred €. When they turned up they were clearly bemused by the system and accidentally discharged the FE when they were removing it. As the old one had a bit of surface rust on it and it being over 10 years old I couldn't find anyone to re-fill it. Hence I had to buy a new one. So my advice is to avoid messing about with these things at the start of your holiday!

I’ve been swinging backwards and forwards on this one but your post has persuaded me not to meddle and just replace like for like and suck up the cost.
I‘ll just think of it as £2000 over 20 years
Hmmmm! that still a hundred quid a year.
Thanks Pete

 

[BruceK]

I’ve been swinging backwards and forwards on this one but your post has persuaded me not to meddle and just replace like for like and suck up the cost.
I‘ll just think of it as £2000 over 20 years
Hmmmm! that still a hundred quid a year.
Thanks Pete

Ah man, you're about to be fleeced and for why precisely again?

 

[Portofino]

I’ve been swinging backwards and forwards on this one but your post has persuaded me not to meddle and just replace like for like and suck up the cost.
I‘ll just think of it as £2000 over 20 years
Hmmmm! that still a hundred quid a year.
Thanks Pete

Current one must be well out of date ?
I mean what bits of paper today are you gonna send to an insurance assessor in the invent of a fire claim ?

Correct me if iam wrong the seafire ( fitted to Petems , and my previous S/ Skr eq Porto 35 ) was lifed for 10 yrs ??
I sold my boat the yr it was coming up for expiration , but did go through the SoF rigmorole sourcing it’s replacement In case I was still the owner at said date .

As said earlier the Fireblitz canister is on a 5 y replacement cycle at £100 quid pa .

Do people think in the event of a big claim that involves fire , be total loss or partial damage , they aren’t gonna bother requesting extinguishers history , invoices and checking it’s in date etc ?

Boat fires usually end up a total loss = the biggest claim .The 1- vessel and the 2- wreck recovery and any 3- collateral damage nearby .

Checking your extinguisher service / replacement history in my mind is low fruit , very low fruit if the ins Co are in a refute mindset when your claim lands on there desk .
We not talking a gel coat ding , a cauliflower prop from grounding as the payout done over the phone kinda claim .

Those 1-2-3 ^ are gonna tot up I would have thought.

I mean if it’s that unimportant, ie folks think they never ask , then why ever bother replacing , servicing it in the first place ?
Ie its on green and weighs the same as it did 20 y ago ( or what ever ) when new .

 

[BruceK]

Well, my boat being over 20 years requires a survey every few years and I use the insurances nominated surveyor and assessor who fully accepted my Fireblitz setup and commented positively. He did check the dates and recorded them so there is that granted, but he had no issue with Fireblitz clean gas and his only negative comment was to remove the powder extinquisher to cover battery fire in favour of above in case it damaged the engines. .... Zurich.

 

[superheat6k]

How would you define a competent person?

Another factor is local regulations, which in Spain require the Fire Extinguisher to be serviced every x years. Whether that applies to UK flagged vessels is another debating point.

I don't know if people remember but I have the same extinguisher on our boat as DavidJ. I was recommended a local company would could service it in Spain for a couple of hundred €. When they turned up they were clearly bemused by the system and accidentally discharged the FE when they were removing it. As the old one had a bit of surface rust on it and it being over 10 years old I couldn't find anyone to re-fill it. Hence I had to buy a new one. So my advice is to avoid messing about with these things at the start of your holiday!

I suppose the question should be addressed to your Insurance broker. In my case a qualified marine engineer and practising refrigeration engineer, with current F Gas Cat 1 City & Guilds. Does that make me competent ?

So then what is meant by 'Service'. Mostly simply an inspection by said competent person. Check for pressure, check for cylinder weight (this is because the fluid is stored as a liquid, and will show normal pressure whether there is 5% or 95% full with liquid - NB never should a gas cylinder be filled 100% with liquid), check for corrosion, check for signs of leakage and degradation around the firing mechanism and seal. Make a note of this and date and sign the note to keep with you boat files. Then repeat each year.

But as I said if not sure ask your insurance broker what the underwriters will require. Most will then retort follow the advice of a / the surveyor.

I am not sure having any engine gas drench system is mandatory for any insurance company - they will simply say again 'surveyor's' advice. So get 5 surveyors in a room and I expect you will get 10 opinions !

Of course none of the above reflects rules that may apply in other Countries. As far as I understand it the only rule as in law that affects most of us (UK based) is the SOLAS requirement to carry a radar reflector, but I am sure I am about to be corrected.