John Passmore's amazing Heavenly Twins storm-story from 2000

Seajet said:
Yup, these figures are completely bogus, even those for the Anderson 22 - which doesn't race much nowadays but one would think had an established figure on the old scales ( used to be 123 years ago ) to work from is now wrong in comparison with others, as is that for the Anderson 26 in comparison, and that's another boat which will hardly ever have raced but they have a figure plucked out of the air.

I used to be a fan of handicap racing, our casual annual club cruiser race worked out as well as one could expect, but the figures I hear lately are nonsense.

As for the Heavenly Twins a Sonata or Anderson would sail rings around it all day...
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Now, to get back off the point. The Byron number is calculated. Nothing to do with observed performance except as the formula was ameliorated when they thunk it up.

The veil is lifted here:

http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/bycorrel.htm
 
Well however they're calculating the figures, they must be for use on some other planet, looking at that table !

Macgregor 26 at 980 ? Is that down Niagara Falls or using the 50hp engine ?

There are so many discrepancies I lost count.
 
Seajet said:
Well however they're calculating the figures, they must be for use on some other planet, looking at that table !

Macgregor 26 at 980 ? Is that down Niagara Falls or using the 50hp engine ?

There are so many discrepancies I lost count.
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That sounds very cynical to me, perhaps you are not fully aware of the subtleties of the design:

"The 26 balances beautifully. A light touch on the wheel is all that is necessary to track a perfect course. The big twin rudders give excellent control. The boat is light. A light boat like this requires less sail area to sail fast, so sail handling is easy. The 26's light weight and its powerboat underbelly allow the boat to get up on top of the water and plane in heavy winds. In such conditions, these boats have exceeded 17 mph under sail. Most small sailboats, with their round bottoms, have speeds limited to around 5 to 6 mph."


c15 knots - not bad from the -Worlds Best Selling Cruising Sailboat.
 
Exactly which world is it a best seller on ? I've only ever seen one, which is just as well as it's damaging to the eyes and my shoes were ruined by my toes curling - I wonder why all sailing boats aren't shaped like a mobo then if it works so well...:rolleyes:
 
Seajet said:
Exactly which world is it a best seller on ? I've only ever seen one, which is just as well as it's damaging to the eyes and my shoes were ruined by my toes curling - I wonder why all sailing boats aren't shaped like a mobo then if it works so well...:rolleyes:
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"Every year, for the past 35 years, the various models of the MacGregor 25 and MacGregor 26 have been the best selling cruising type sailboats, not only in the United States, but in the entire world. We can think of no other manufacturer, of any type of product, that has so totally dominated its market for so long a period of time."

"MacGregor has delivered over 5000 of the 26X, 3000 of the new 26M and a total of over 38,000 sailboats. They have been thoroughly proven over millions of hours of sailing. No other boats can match our quality, performance, comfort, convenience and low cost."

5000, 3000 - even the supersonic, all-weather Anderson 22 can barely beat those numbers.
 
Twister_Ken said:
"...MacGregor... No other boats can match our quality, performance, comfort, convenience and low cost."
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You had me nodding thoughtfully there, Ken, till I realised it was the MacGregor company's own description that I was reading!

Interestingly enough, John Passmore records that during an early test of the Heavenly Twins, the boat achieved over 13 knots! And this is the sluggard we're all dismissing here. I suppose there are instances - however exceptional or downright dangerous - when any boat can go fast...and its fervent fans will never let the skeptical world forget the fact.
 
dancrane said:
Interestingly enough, John Passmore records that during an early test of the Heavenly Twins, the boat achieved over 13 knots!
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Perhaps; but only with a favourable wind, no 2 tonnes of accumulated stuff, a clean bottom and sails that don't resemble granny's bloomers!
 
I was thinking of the MacGregor, quoted as sailing at mid-teen speeds...doubtless it's possible, but probably only under circumstances when few would wish to be aboard. No?

Actually I have a mate who doesn't know a thing about sailing, except through years of hearing about my enthusiasm. He's mainly a car & bike man but he'd like a boat too, even if only to justify buying a big 4x4 to tow it. He says he'd like a sailboat - my interest has made its mark - but he's a total petrolhead. Maybe a MacGregor would be perfect for him?
 
Twister_Ken;4378085" said:
MacGregor has delivered over 5000 of the 26X, 3000 of the new 26M and a total of over 38,000 sailboats."
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And made the boss Roger a very wealthy man, whereas the yard that made A22's went bust after making about 18 of them. Even the HT, so disparaged by the forum Andermentalist, was in production from 1975 to 1995, so they must have done something right.
 
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Seajet is generally entertaining but also generally incapable of ever seeing outside his blinkers, he used to have a mate who used to sail one a few years ago but who couldn't ever get it to go well, ergo to Seajet they are all ****, it isn't a well thought out opinion but hell will freeze over before he changes it.
11.5knots was the best we saw on the HT out of a tide, we were on the initial delivery trip in December off Dover, tide had just turned and was maybe half or three quarters of a knot, sliding down the waves with all the white stuff up saw lots of nines and tens and then the magic 11. Then I got scared and put a reef in. We were light because we'd just bought her and had very little gear on board and the water tanks were empty. Still in the right conditions she went really well, just generally they aren't great sailers. They made 500 of them over a 20 year period ('75 to '95) which rather suggests that for a long time people kept buying them. That's four times more than the wonderful A22, but I guess to Seajet that means 500 more people in the world who are wrong.
 
I reckon the HT looks terrific as a petite floating holiday platform, but it's interesting that so many owners seem to overload them in spite of what it costs them in performance.

And, this "hobby-horsing" tendency surprised me...granted it may often result from too much weight in the nose of the hulls, but have a look at this vid (advance it to 4minutes 30)...


...the water's practically flat, but for nearly thirty seconds she looks uncomfortably lively, for a boat that's also been across the widest oceans. Do HT skippers just smile & hang on?
 
Looks familiar; two catamarans sailing in close proximity, bridge in the background. They were a lot slower to get up on the foils than the last time I watched video of this scenario though. :)
 
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