JibSheet Routing

[Fire99]

Hi All,

Probably not the most technical question in the world and I may be being a numpty but where should you route the Jib Sheet with regards to the shrouds?

I have an upper and two lowers on each side.The genoa(well I believe it's a genoa as it overlaps the mainsail a little) seems to sit best close hauled when the sheet runs outside the two lowers but inside the cap shroud but previously I had the sheets running outside all three.

Anyway, this is one thing i've never got my head round since getting the boat so any help would be appreciated.

Happy Christmas all.

Nick

 

[flaming]

Hi All,

Probably not the most technical question in the world and I may be being a numpty but where should you route the Jib Sheet with regards to the shrouds?

I have an upper and two lowers on each side.The genoa(well I believe it's a genoa as it overlaps the mainsail a little) seems to sit best close hauled when the sheet runs outside the two lowers but inside the cap shroud but previously I had the sheets running outside all three.

Anyway, this is one thing i've never got my head round since getting the boat so any help would be appreciated.

Happy Christmas all.

Nick

Probably not the most helpful reply, but it depends!

It will vary between boats, and may also change depending on the cut of the sail. Basically you ust have to experiment and see what gives you the best shape. You might find that inside the cap shrouds is best for beating, but the sheet then chafes when you're on a reach. You then need to decide if you can be bothered to move it when necessary, or will accept the chafe or the less than perfect sheet lead.

 

[Fire99]

Probably not the most helpful reply, but it depends!

It will vary between boats, and may also change depending on the cut of the sail. Basically you ust have to experiment and see what gives you the best shape. You might find that inside the cap shrouds is best for beating, but the sheet then chafes when you're on a reach. You then need to decide if you can be bothered to move it when necessary, or will accept the chafe or the less than perfect sheet lead.

Actually it's alot more helpful than you think. Thanks for that.

The problem I was getting was that wherever I routed the Sheets wasn't perfect for all conditions so I was getting a bit baffled what was the 'correct' way.

I'll continue to experiment a little and no doubt vary the setup depending on my route I'd guess.

 

[VicS]

The most common arrangement for ordinary non racing machines is for the headsail sheets to be outside everything.

I assume we are talking about a Snappie 23?. If so then you are very unlikely to be wanting to sail so close to the wind that you will need to sheet inside the shrouds.

Eventually you will learn that if you ease the sheets, and sail a little less close to the wind the boat will go faster, will make much less leeway and your progress to windward will be consequently much faster.

 

[johnalison]

The situation has changed a bit recently, with fractional rigs and swept spreaders, when sometimes a sheeting run inside the cap shrouds is appropriate, especially with small self-tacking jibs. In almost all other craft the sheet will chafe as said above, or the genoa will come against a spreader. For example, my HR34 has cap shrouds well inboard on the side-deck, whereas the newer 342 has cap shrouds at the rail.

 

[Fire99]

Yeah we're talking about the 'legendary in my own marina berth' Snappie.
The cap shrouds run to the edge of the side deck which kinda opens up the options a little.

I was running them outside all the shrouds when the rigging was too slack. Now the rigging has been retensioned the genoa seems to sit more comfortable between the lowers and the cap shroud.

 

[Fire99]

Eventually you will learn that if you ease the sheets, and sail a little less close to the wind the boat will go faster, will make much less leeway and your progress to windward will be consequently much faster.

I think this may be significant as at the moment I may be trying to push the snappie's windward abilities with everything hauled in very close to the centreline.

There is without a doubt a fair degree of inexperience with sails in all the decision making.

 

[Stemar]

The most common arrangement for ordinary non racing machines is for the headsail sheets to be outside everything.

I assume we are talking about a Snappie 23?. If so then you are very unlikely to be wanting to sail so close to the wind that you will need to sheet inside the shrouds.

Eventually you will learn that if you ease the sheets, and sail a little less close to the wind the boat will go faster, will make much less leeway and your progress to windward will be consequently much faster.

I'm inclined to agree with Vic.

I have a Snappie 24 and, while she's never going to scare a Contessa to windward, she seems to make better progress sailed quite free. I keep promising myself to set a waypoint dirctly to windward and tack towards it, varying how close I sail and watching my VMG to find out the ideal angle, but if I can do 5 knots on a beam reach, about 4-4.3 knots feels about right. Below 4 knots, she just doesn't feel right.

The really important thing is to keep her upright. Beyond about 15 degrees of heel, the keels lose their grip and she skitters off sideways.

 

[Fire99]

I'm inclined to agree with Vic.

I have a Snappie 24 and, while she's never going to scare a Contessa to windward, she seems to make better progress sailed quite free. I keep promising myself to set a waypoint dirctly to windward and tack towards it, varying how close I sail and watching my VMG to find out the ideal angle, but if I can do 5 knots on a beam reach, about 4-4.3 knots feels about right. Below 4 knots, she just doesn't feel right.

The really important thing is to keep her upright. Beyond about 15 degrees of heel, the keels lose their grip and she skitters off sideways.

That sounds pretty fair. So we're talking going a few degrees further off the wind and letting the sails out a touch rather than keeping them hauled in tight?

 

[VicS]

So we're talking going a few degrees further off the wind and letting the sails out a touch rather than keeping them hauled in tight?

Yes very definitely. Maintain a good speed through the water rather than trying to point as high as possible.
Experiment next season. I think you'll be very surprised.

 

[Fire99]

Yes very definitely. Maintain a good speed through the water rather than trying to point as high as possible.
Experiment next season. I think you'll be very surprised.

That's great. Thanks. Well fortunately i'm afloat over winter so, weather permitting, i'll be out over the next few days.

 

[William_H]

Jib sheeting

You need to decide the best sheeting angle for the jib then try to minimise the chafe on the shrouds. On some sophisticated racers the sheeting angle is adjustable. However generally in stronger winds a wider angle is better but in medium winds a closer sheeting angle may give pointing benefits.
All this assuming that you use the genoa full sized and if you put a roll into it with a furler or change down jib size then sheeting needs to be readjusted both fore and aft and possible sheeting angle to centre line.

I have had some success using additional sheets coming from a pulley on the gunwhale and further forward than the main sheeting pulleys. This enables the jib to be run wider for stronger winds especially when reaching and will hold the jib out better when running. Use a lighter sheet and just ignore it when using the main sheet fr windward work.

Another trick is to use a speed meter (GPS or Log) to check your speed when beating. If you normal max speed when off the wind is say 6 knots in a good wind then when beating you should be down a bit less than 5 knots. If you go too fast (5.5) you are sacrificing pointing while if you go too slow (below 4) as said you will get leeway and be going too slow. The speed is obviously adjusted by the closeness you sail to the wind. While these are only guess numbers you can find out yourself with a little practice.

Seasons greetings to you and all. Just to upset you we had a 36 max yesterday Christmas day with lots of swimming and eating. olewill

 

[Ceirwan]

Yes very definitely. Maintain a good speed through the water rather than trying to point as high as possible.
Experiment next season. I think you'll be very surprised.

As long as we emphasise that this advice applies to this chaps boat!

With my boat freeing off the sheets does make me go faster through the water, but I make less VMG upwind, the best thing to do is experiment and find what works best.
You'll learn so much more that way anyway!

 

[dt4134]

As long as we emphasise that this advice applies to this chaps boat!

With my boat freeing off the sheets does make me go faster through the water, but I make less VMG upwind, the best thing to do is experiment and find what works best.
You'll learn so much more that way anyway!

I read it that VicS was simply giving advice on the basis that many people new to sailing have a tendency to pinch and oversheet the headsail. On that basis the advice is pretty general.

I take it you race your quarter-tonner so you presumably will already have a pretty good idea of your optimum heading and trim in various conditions, so of course the advice would be much less relevent to you.

 

[Fire99]

Don't worry guys, I think i'm taking the advice in the nature it was intended. This is my first year of my move from power to sail (other than the odd course or two) so still picking up some pointers..
Saying that I think i've done more Sailing hours in the past 3 or 4 months than some have in the past 2 years. Some boats don't move very often.

Anyway, keeping things on topic, my real concern was whether there was a rule of tumb regarding routing headsail sheeting and i'm now getting to understand it's not an exact science and it varies upon boat, sail, wind and pointing.

 

[SAWDOC]

I think this may be significant as at the moment I may be trying to push the snappie's windward abilities with everything hauled in very close to the centreline.

There is without a doubt a fair degree of inexperience with sails in all the decision making.

Not to worry - you are asking all the right questions. Keep sailing and keep observing one eye on the speed log all the time. Sail shape seems to be crucial from what I have learnt so far.

 

[Fire99]

Not to worry - you are asking all the right questions. Keep sailing and keep observing one eye on the speed log all the time. Sail shape seems to be crucial from what I have learnt so far.

Many thanks. Yep, getting there. Experience is always a good thing. Should hopefully be back out over the next few days, which is long overdue. All this time on land isn't good for you.