Jib vs. Genoa

[Neddie_Seagoon]

I have a 27' long-keel yacht with a relatively high-aspect mainsail.

My main foresail is probably technically a jib, it extends 3/4trs of the way up the forestay, and the clew just overlaps the mainsail when sheeted in tight.

In stronger winds, when I depower the main, I suffer from excessive lee helm. Obviously I could change the foresail for a smaller one, but it's hank-on and especially when single-handed in gusty conditions this is not desperately desirable.

What I was wondering is whether a Genoa would actually have the effect of moving the center of effort towards the stern and thereby mitigate the lee helm effect when sailing primarily on the foresail?

Any thoughts, am I talking rubbish? Many more modern boats seem to cope well with a high-aspect mainsail and 150% Genoa.

Any other suggestions? I'm currently sailing on Windermere, where the wind fluctuations are notorious, but I'll probably be moving the boat to the NW coast for next season, and I expect the gusting problem to be much less significant offshore than it is on Windermere.

TIA,

Steve

 

[Lakesailor]

If it's a bit sad it could be baggy at the luff moving the effort even further forward.

 

[26ft_bathtub]

Yes. It would move the COE aft. It would also be a greater sail area, so you'll end up changing it out in heavy weather anyway. My genoa is about the same area as my working jib and main combined. They're a bitch to tack, too.

If you're thinking about spending money, how about investing in roller furling on your headsail?

 

[26ft_bathtub]

Or just let the jib out a little, same as you do for the main.

 

[Guest]

Actually I'm not sure that a genoa would decrease lee helm. I may be wrong, but I believe that it would depend whether more of the 'new' sail area was in front of, or behind, the centre of lateral resistance of the hull. I would think most of it would almost certainly be in front of the centre of lateral resistance, so you would increase lee helm with a genoa - lots of the added area will be along the foot and further up the leech where it's well in front of the mast. At best you'd have have a neutral effect.

Constructive suggestions? Try raking the mast aft. As Lakesailor mentions, a less baggy sail could be good, especially if you use a roller jib, it could be creating an inefficient bag on the front of the boat when partly rolled. If you have space, a heavy weather jib on (removeable) inner forestay would help a lot. Obviously more area on the leech of the mainsail, but you probably don't want to add more sail area to the mainsail in those conditions, but maybe a greater roach to the main with battens?

Anyone got better ideas?

 

[savageseadog]

Move your jib sheet cars back a bit too.

 

[Guest]

Actually another thought - whether it's possible to move the fixing point for the forestay back a bit (you can always leave the old one up to to stop the mast falling down). May require under deck reinforcing, and moving sheeting points aft, but probably not such a big job, and it's have quite a big effect taking sail area away from the bows.

 

[William_H]

It is unusual to hear complaints about lee helm when the wind comes up. I don't suppose you really mean weather helm which often occurs from the boat heeling rather than the balance of area fore and aft.
OK assuming you mean lee helm. You might consider a new jib possibly one even higher and shorter along the foot for better efficiency especially up wind.
You should have a large genoa for light wind sailing so if you had you could try that.
You might like to try jib sheeting points that are out on the gunwhale. This means poorer pointing to windward but better sail shape and drive off the wind as in a reach or running.

What you really need is some crew to do jib changes and other adjustments or to steer the boat for you. I like to see a boat sail as well as possible so am not keen on roller reefing.
keep fiddling olewill.

 

[Neddie_Seagoon]

Thanks to all, that gives me some ideas to think about and check over. I'll go away and play /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Steve

 

[andy_wilson]

How long is the tack line on the jib? They are usually used with a tack line (short wire strop from foot of sail to stemhead fitting) to raise the height of the sail a little for visibility and wave clearence.

This would also move the C of E back a bit, but good shape and trim would probably count for more.