Jib Sail Confusion: reefing points on a furling sail?

[Cian]

Hi all,
I'm a bit confused by an old sail I found on my new-to-me boat. It's marked as "Jib 2".

The sail has no hanks or slides but it does appear to have a luff tape. It looks like this luff tape would fit my furling system. So far so good. However, the sail also has a set of reefing points. The reef tack is set about a metre up the sail and the luff tape begins just after this point.

Could I use this sail with my furling system as a smaller alternative to my genoa?
Would I just ignore the reefing points and furl it in to reef?
Or is there ever an occasion where I might want to use the reefing points instead of furling?

Thanks!

 

[Daydream believer]

A furled sail rarely gives as good shape as as one which is not furled. The sail goes slack so some sail makers insert foam luffs. Reefing it may give a better shape. One other consideration is where the sheeting angle ends up. It may be that the furled sail can be sheeted from the existing track. If not it may be that a fairlead has been provided to suit the reefed sail.
When reefed the foot of the sail needs to be properly anchored to avoid the luff pulling out of line with the foil & stripping the luff out of the track as 1 metre is quite a long distance to go unsupported.

 

[flaming]

That sounds like you have a reefable J2...

Popular back in the day, and as they say what was old is new again... This sort of sail has been gaining a lot of traction in the shorthanded scene lately, as it is easier and quicker to tuck a reef in a jib than it is to change jib when double or singlehanded. And part furling a sail is not an option if you want to win races.

This sail would not have been designed for use with the furling drum, but with a tuffluff. You may find that the loss of hoist (gap between tack point and halyard attachment) taken up by the drum at the bottom and the swivel at the top makes it too long to fit on your furler.

No particular reason not to use it if it does fit, but it will not like being part furled at all. So use it as an all or nothing sail. And it probably won't have a UV strip, so best not to leave it up.

In short, unless you're going to use it in the way it was designed to be used, I suspect it will be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Mudisox]

I had one on my old Tri, but it had hanks and was much easier to have less up front by lowering the halyard and tying in a few reef points. Saved having to take the no.2 down and putting up another and it was what was almost a storm jib. Only sail up for a momentous crossing Alderney to Hurst in 40-45 kts. Thought that I might have to run it up the beach if I didn't make the gybe onto a reach to make the narrows.

 

[blush2]

Hi all,
I'm a bit confused by an old sail I found on my new-to-me boat. It's marked as "Jib 2".

The sail has no hanks or slides but it does appear to have a luff tape. It looks like this luff tape would fit my furling system. So far so good. However, the sail also has a set of reefing points. The reef tack is set about a metre up the sail and the luff tape begins just after this point.

Could I use this sail with my furling system as a smaller alternative to my genoa?
Would I just ignore the reefing points and furl it in to reef?
Or is there ever an occasion where I might want to use the reefing points instead of furling?

Thanks!

Many moons ago we had a Trapper T30 which had a reefing jib on a Tufluff foil. Don't think we used it very much. (She's just been sold again - you aren't her new owner are you?)

 

[Quandary]

We were doing the overnight Portpatrick race from Bangor in our Sigma 33, it had a twin groove headfoil, the sadists at RUYC had set a course round Ailsa Craig and then on north to the Iron Ledges buoy south of Arran, it was pissing down and blowing hard all night, most of the boats retired and reached staight over to Portpatrick for some serious drinking, one of our crew was seasick after an hour or two and that set most of the rest of them off, by the time we rounded the Ledges and started the beat south there were only two of us on deck, down below was like the aftermath of an orgy with unconscious and semi conscious bodies still in their oilies in bunks and lying on the floor, sliding about in the vomit. Beating back under reefed main and No2 (smallest head sail we ever used) with only me on the windward rail, as it got light the helmsman, the indomitable Pat Kelly, demanded that we reduced the headsail, I staggered below fetched the jib out through the mayhem and stink, brought it on deck, fed it into the second groove while lying across it to keep it from blowing away and then staggering back and forward managed to get it up and the number two down and stowed, seemed to take close to an hour during some of which we were bareheaded and making leeway toward Ayr. We were overtaken by the second boat and had to work very hard all morning to recover. It was only when I was dragging the No 2 back to dump it through the hatch that the sight of the cringles reminded me that the damn thing could have been reefed by pulling it down in less than a minute. my excuse was that I normally never got further forward than the cockpit but it really was nausea and fatigue. When we finished in Portpatrick most of the retirees were already well oiled, we booked the recovering crew in to a B &B and set straight off back to Carrick, Pat claiming he had to work on Sunday, though I suspected he wanted to race his own boat at Antrim.
So yes, though rarely used, headsails with reefing cringles were a thing back in the day, as were the sadists who set the courses and the masochists who sailed them.

 

[Neeves]

You might have an old sail that had hanks and the hanks removed and a cord inserted to allow it to be used on a roller fuller. Being an old sail it would have had reefing lines and holes in the sail for same. Its hardly a dated alteration - members here often query whether an old sail can be converted for a furler,

I'm under the impression you don't have much sun in the UK, even in summer . so why it would have a UV strip seems a bit excessive - but seriously if it fits, if it offers you something that is missing from you inventory (and it has a UV strip) then use it - its better than forking most for a new sail. And until you try it you will have no idea what it looks like when half furled.

So - don't ask us, we can only guess - 'Just do it'.

Jonathan

 

[Cian]

Thanks everyone. That's cleared it up. Guess I'll see how it looks once it's up.

@blush2 It's a Sadler 32 so your old Trapper has a different home

@Neeves I'm in Ireland so even less UV to worry about! I will certainly try it out as it would be a very useful sail to have. With our current lockdown restrictions, however, I can't access my boat. Instead I'm reduced to rolling out, measuring and repacking sails into their bags.

 

[LadyInBed]

Does the sail have a cringle on the leach or is it 'high cut' so that the sheet cringle is still good when the sail is reefed?
It's given me an idea ?I have a fairly heavy high cut hank on yankee, so I could put a cringle a meter or so up the luff and use it in heavier weather.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks everyone. That's cleared it up. Guess I'll see how it looks once it's up.

@blush2 It's a Sadler 32 so your old Trapper has a different home

@Neeves I'm in Ireland so even less UV to worry about! I will certainly try it out as it would be a very useful sail to have. With our current lockdown restrictions, however, I can't access my boat. Instead I'm reduced to rolling out, measuring and repacking sails into their bags.

Clan

If there is no UV strip they can be easy to add using 'sticky back' Dacron. I don't know what the technical name is. You can buy it, or you can here in Oz (from Bainbridge) in the width needed for a UV strip and just stick it on. Here it comes as a large roll and we buy if by the metre. Best done with the sail flat. Because of the cut of the sail you will probably need to do it in more than one length. Ideally you want to run round the edge and any overlaps with a sewing machine, not literally - I mean stich it as if the wind gets under an edge it will peel it off.

Our cat came with a self tacking headsail which is a bit smaller than a No 3 jib. In good weather its a complete waste of time, too small and flat. We invested in a 150% Genoa and installed tracks and one winch (we cross sheet). During the build the reinforcement for the tracks was 'built in' - so it was a simply upgrade. But if the weather is iffy the self tacking jib comes into its own and we swap the Jenny over for the jib as we only have one fixed forestay (with the furler). Normally we would simply stay at anchor until the weather improves (sailing is meant to be a pleasure not an endurance exercise) but needs must - our small jib has not seen that much use.

Stay safe, take care.

Jonathan