Jib Downhaul

[Seajet]

I was reminded how useful this is by a Hunter 701 owner, a boat very similar to mine.

At 22'ish feet, one can simply tuck a headsail under one's arm and stroll forward to change hanked sails, a roller reefing system is just a pain which means lesser pointing performance, and I've been on several boats ( one Anderson, a Centaur and a Folkboat ) where the things went wrong leaving us in an awkward position.

For 22'ish boats I suggest a downhaul line on the headsail, just a simple thin line from the sail head halliard to deck level then aft; when releasng the halliard the sail can be pulled down - and redeployed in the manner of a roller sail if required.

Netting on the forward guardrails stops the sail from blowing over the side.

Meanwhile one has a well setting sail, with better pointing ability than a genoa on a roller.

 

[ProDave]

I'll stick to my Barton Roller furling drum system.

All the advantages of a "real" roller reefing system. Sail still sets just like a hanked on sail. and if the furler does jam, you can still drop the halyard to drop the sail so no chance of getting stuck with a sail you can't wind in.

I agree with your concerns about "real" furling systems that wind the sail onto a foil around the forestay. This year, one boat had his forestay start to fray. Thankfully they noticed and replaced it, otherwise that could have been a real problem. And during a cruiser race this year, we saw one boat motoring for shelter in strong wind with an obviously jammed roller reefing and a half deployed fore sail flogging.

 

[lw395]

A jib downhaul can be useful, some of the racing dayboats use it if they want to lose the jib when the spinnaker is up.
Being able to quickly lose the jib from the cockpit can be valuable when coming into close quarters.
Not really a rival to roller reefing, but costs less than a tenner to fit...

 

[prv]

Downhauls on all three jibs and the foretopmast staysail on Stavros

On yachts that have them, I think hanks with a downhaul work particularly well on staysails. They're usually relatively small, they're inboard so the sail will generally land neatly on deck, they're often not reefed, and small ones may be used as storm canvas so simple is good.

I seriously contemplated re-rigging KS's staysail this way - I think there may even be a staysail with hanks already among the bundle of old and spare canvas we inherited.

I know Russell has a hanked staysail with downhaul on his Cape Cutter.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

I'll stick to my Barton Roller furling drum system.

All the advantages of a "real" roller reefing system. Sail still sets just like a hanked on sail. and if the furler does jam, you can still drop the halyard to drop the sail so no chance of getting stuck with a sail you can't wind in.

I agree with your concerns about "real" furling systems that wind the sail onto a foil around the forestay. This year, one boat had his forestay start to fray. Thankfully they noticed and replaced it, otherwise that could have been a real problem. And during a cruiser race this year, we saw one boat motoring for shelter in strong wind with an obviously jammed roller reefing and a half deployed fore sail flogging.

ProDave,

I and I'm sure others would be interested to learn more of your Barton system if it doesn't involve rolling the sail around a foil ?

I've always thought Barton are a maker of good kit, slightly maligned as not being 'trendy'.

How does it result in a sail which allows pointing like a separate headsail ?!

Andy

 

[rob2]

... but costs less than a tenner to fit...

You must introduce us to your chandler, then. Around here a tenner buys around two meters of rope!

Rob.

 

[lw395]

You must introduce us to your chandler, then. Around here a tenner buys around two meters of rope!

Rob.

eBay quite often!
You only need a pulley near the tack, and 10 or 15 metres of about 4mm line, which does not need to be high-tech or low stretch.
One of the basic non-ballrace blocks will be fine.
If there is a cleat you can secure the line in, that is useful, not essential.

 

[ProDave]

ProDave,

I and I'm sure others would be interested to learn more of your Barton system if it doesn't involve rolling the sail around a foil ?

I've always thought Barton are a maker of good kit, slightly maligned as not being 'trendy'.

How does it result in a sail which allows pointing like a separate headsail ?!

Andy

The barton furling drum sits at the bottom, and a swivel sits at the top on the jib halyard.

In NEEDS a foresail with a wire rope luff, which fortunately mine had already. When you wind it in, it winds around it's own wire rope.

My claim it sets as well as a hanked on sail may not be quite true, but the point is it's just supported by the wire luff rope, not much different therefore to being hanked onto the wire forestay. It's NOT on a rigid foil.

Key to getting it to work well is to get enough tension in the jib halyard. As I don't have a mast winch on my boat, that proved a little tricky to start with. But I soon learned the trick on my boat was to slacken the backstay a bit, tension the job halyard, then re tighten the backstay.

Lakesailor has one of his videos of the barton furling system in use on one of his boats, indeed it was seeing it in use convinced me to fit one to my own boat. Hopefully he will see this and post the link.

Contrary to popular belief I find I CAN use it as a reefing system, i.e let only part of the sail out. Officially it's all or nothing, i.e only a furling system, not a reefing system. But it worked when I tried it, and I can't see what possible harm it could do used like that.

 

[Seajet]

The barton furling drum sits at the bottom, and a swivel sits at the top on the jib halyard.

In NEEDS a foresail with a wire rope luff, which fortunately mine had already. When you wind it in, it winds around it's own wire rope.

My claim it sets as well as a hanked on sail may not be quite true, but the point is it's just supported by the wire luff rope, not much different therefore to being hanked onto the wire forestay. It's NOT on a rigid foil.

Key to getting it to work well is to get enough tension in the jib halyard. As I don't have a mast winch on my boat, that proved a little tricky to start with. But I soon learned the trick on my boat was to slacken the backstay a bit, tension the job halyard, then re tighten the backstay.

Lakesailor has one of his videos of the barton furling system in use on one of his boats, indeed it was seeing it in use convinced me to fit one to my own boat. Hopefully he will see this and post the link.

Contrary to popular belief I find I CAN use it as a reefing system, i.e let only part of the sail out. Officially it's all or nothing, i.e only a furling system, not a reefing system. But it worked when I tried it, and I can't see what possible harm it could do used like that.

ProDave,

thanks ! Not being rude, but that sounds very like the furling kit ( Holt ? ) I had on my Osprey dinghy; officially that was 'all or nothing' too, just for getting the jib out of the way when using the spinnaker, but unofficially we used it reefed when cruising the boat.

I do think Barton make good kit, including ball bearing stuff nowadays - no connection but they're welcome to send me a squillion for saying so.

 

[lw395]

ProDave,

thanks ! Not being rude, but that sounds very like the furling kit ( Holt ? ) I had on my Osprey dinghy; officially that was 'all or nothing' too, just for getting the jib out of the way when using the spinnaker, but unofficially we used it reefed when cruising the boat.

I do think Barton make good kit, including ball bearing stuff nowadays - no connection but they're welcome to send me a squillion for saying so.

+1, I had one on a 505.
Using the sail reefed was quite cruel to the sail, but OK on a well worn training sail.
Useful to leave a couple of sq ft out when hove to or for control coming ashore.
I think if you powered the sail up half rolled you might do damage, particularly to a nice newish racing sail.

 

[Seajet]

Iw395,

quite right !

On dinghies I never had new sails to worry about but you make a good point.

 

[Jack B]

on my boat i have reefing points in the sail, which makes it easier than setting a completely new jib while at the same time sail shape is still good. To make it easier i am going to invest in two sets of sheets

 

[PhillM]

eBay quite often!
You only need a pulley near the tack, and 10 or 15 metres of about 4mm line, which does not need to be high-tech or low stretch.
One of the basic non-ballrace blocks will be fine.
If there is a cleat you can secure the line in, that is useful, not essential.

+1 that is excatly what we did. Crew hate going to the foredeck on the way into port. Down haul made them all very happy.

 

[Poignard]

Crew hate going to the foredeck on the way into port.

Flog the mutinous dogs!

 

[PhillM]

Flog the mutinous dogs!

 

[Seajet]

on my boat i have reefing points in the sail, which makes it easier than setting a completely new jib while at the same time sail shape is still good. To make it easier i am going to invest in two sets of sheets

Jack B,

how are you going to use 2 sets of sheets ?

 

[prv]

how are you going to use 2 sets of sheets ?

Hitch the new ones on before taking the old ones off, presumably, so the sail is never without sheets and flapping like a flag.

Headsails with reef points have multiple clews and you need to move the sheets between them.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

Hitch the new ones on before taking the old ones off, presumably, so the sail is never without sheets and flapping like a flag.

Headsails with reef points have multiple clews and you need to move the sheets between them.

Pete

Pete,

thanks; I have a No. 1 genoa with a reef row built in to reduce it to No.2 size, though think I've only reefed it once in 34 years !

I have a screw threaded carabiner - for want of a better term - on the headsail sheets and just transfer it from sail to sail, not a problem on a 7/8ths rigged 22' boat but would have been on the masthead rigged 30' Carter cruiser racer I had.

 

[winsbury]

My t'penneth:

Our Wayfarer has a reefing genoa ( proper reefing, not just all or nothing furling ) consisting of a carbon fiber rod 8mm in diameter by Aeroluffspars which sits inside the luff tube of the sail. The drum and swivel are by Harken and we have the forestay outside the reefing system held away from the luff by a Plastimo halyard spacer. The whole system works exeptionally well and the sail wraps only around itself so there is no wear associated with putting the luff inside a metal guide etc. and the luff entry is virtually unchanged from a standard hank on sail whether it's reefed or not. I dont know if something like this would scale up to yacht size but I cant see any obvious reason why not.


Our Pegasus has a Plastimo reefing system which obviously does not include any downhaul for the Genoa / trisail though I can see it could be useful if the furler fails or jams for any reason and just to help pull the sail down on occassions. However I cant see how it would be possible to incorporate a downhaul with the existing a reefing system without getting into major tangles whenever the reefing system was used or am I missing something ?