Jet ski-ing Dangers

As Wavey says above.. we are not all mindless idiots..
however, we do accept our sport attracts a rouge element and many clubs throughout the country are adressing these "people", with encouragments to do RYA training, organised cruises with RYA trained instructors, conformation of insurance before being alowed to launch etc..
I ride in the Solent area, launching from Lee, and I'm a member of the Solent Skiers Association.
As a club we do our utmost to police the "holiday skiers" who come down for 1 or 2 weeks a year and seem to have no clue about safety and maritime laws...but obviously we only have a certain amount of clout...

I would just like to say that if anyone see's a largish cruise of ski's (5-10) around the Solent, it will prob be us... (we do not pump wash other boats I promise.) so give us a wave (more than 2 fingers please)
 
To Wavey Davey ...

I for one really appreciate your effort and concern. I don't think there is anyone that wants to spoil others fun and enjoyment of the water ... as you say it is iodiots and rogues spoiling it for others.

We have them with all sorts of other craft as well big and small ... so it is not isolated. Problem is that PWC's are more local, often close to mooring or beach areas which brings them into conflict with varied other users.

I sincerely hope that sense and order can prevail and we all enjoy our sport. I think that majority would agree that 'sanctuary's set aside for PWC's to do as please and not be danger to others would be honoured by us larger craft - same as we honour Water Ski areas ....

Bravo and I have to add that your post in not crying and shouting against us -( it has to be said that we do go a bit OTT on this subject )- as the other did on the Stolen Gear forum is a very bright and welcome sign.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Just a couple of people spoil it for the majority!

One "jetskier" can cause a newsence and many complaints. I really don't think that more than 5% of "jetskiers" are a problem, and within that many simply need training as they simply don't know anything about the water.

The problem is the authorities, they don't deal with that 5%, and with all watersports there is always a small group of trouble makers.

As the chap said when he was leaving Cowes and was hit and swamped by a PWC's wake reported it to the authorities, even made the offer to see it through court and nothing was done!

The regular, well behaved PWC users including myself would really love to see the idiots who know they are breaking the law thrown inside, or have their craft taken away.

Our club have patrollers who advise people launching from Lee-on-Solent, the vast majority say sorry, that they didn't know and then fall in line and become good water users, we equally get people who tell us to piss off and they'll do what ever the hell they want. We get that from many power boat users also!!!

However what authorities are good at is charging for permits, launching etc which only hits those good PWC users in the pockets and does nothing to sort out the problem users, they just move along to the next free launch site.

The police need more powers, as at the moment I'm afraid to say they are next to useless from what I've seen so far. If these rogues did what they do on PWC's but in cars they would have been banned from the road, the police would have air support, spikes, multipule cars following them, but on the water they just watch and collect evidence but do very little with it.
 
Cowes .... and side-swiped ..... was my boat

<<As the chap said when he was leaving Cowes and was hit and swamped by a PWC's wake reported it to the authorities, even made the offer to see it through court and nothing was done!>>

That was me ... the incident was so bad ... and the guy was laughing his head off ... I was so amazed that he could swamp / swipe my boat and not be shocked at actually striking me ... he honestly laughed and then went on to do it to others .... the calls on VHF to Coast Guard basically showed his progress across the solent to Lee on Solent ...
 
Re: Cowes .... and side-swiped ..... was my boat

All PWC's have a registration code on the side of each craft. Also, when a person undertakes the one day competency course, the school which runs the course has to submit a card together with a passport photo of the person. The RYA then issue the recipient with a card with the photo encapsulated on it and the date is held on computer. As a jet ski instructor, I have to say that the majority of people I teach are not in the "yob" category. They are either those who are looking at their first introduction to water sports and in some cases even undergo the course before buying a PWC or they are experienced skiers who now want to take their skis abroad and need the appropriate paperwork.

As others have said, it is only a relatively small proportion of PWC users who flout the rules, but sufficient to cause "annoyance" to others. But this could also be levelled at other water users as well.

Organisations such as The Solent Skiers Ass. do a good job in trying to "monitor" users, but they can only go so far. As one respondent to this thread has pointed out, the rogue guys simply move to other sites where launching is free and uncontrolled. Some harbour authorities have in fact banned PWC from using the harbour at all - Portsmouth now does not allow either launching or entry by PWC's.
 
Re: Cowes .... and side-swiped ..... was my boat

All UK craft have a DATA-tag number, this is not a registration number. It is up to each owner to register the craft in their name.

Hello there forum! or should that be Ahoy!
The skiers out there will know me.
Some of the sailers out there may have heard me.

Jet skiing has a rogue element, its the same as a motorway driver. The legal limit is 70, some feel its to fast some feel its to slow. The motorway there fore attracts a rogue element.

The side swipe incident is rare, i am not saying it is impossible, and i sympathise with the owner of the craft.
More and more slips and harbours are now requiring registration. this for me is a good thing. it means people can be named and shamed ( if the records are up to date)

reporting any incident is a must, its the first line to go down. the authorities will deal with it accordingly.

I have spent many years promoting this sport, and it hurts to see some of your comments ( fasten fishing line between two points) but i can see where you kind of come from. But i would never drag a light line behind a craft on purpose or tie between two points, even sailing away pretending not to know could lead to charge of man slaughter! or the light line ripping part of your vessel away!!!
I dont as yet know how to cure the rogue element, probably in the same way the police do not know how to stop every speeder.
Don't use the word BAN as the first port of call. Try education or communication.

As pointed out before i spend a little time trying to promote PWC use. I was granted the privilige of commentating at this years IFOS (portsmouth) attended Ifos (edinburgh) and again Ifos again in portsmouth a few years ago. To be able to communicate with what i call "yachtys" is great. i agree with some of their views but they also get an insight into what PWC use is all about.

I feel passionately about this sport, yet have never owned a craft. Reccomending a way to personally injure another water user is something i will glance over, lets call it a rogue element on your site.
Positive and constructive feedback i will listen to all day.

its a small world, surely we can all live on it at once?
 
Re: Cowes .... and side-swiped ..... was my boat

Once again I am amazed how tolerant UK authorities are. Here, all craft capable of doing more than 10 knots under power must be registered and their drivers licensed. Also large areas of Sydney Harbour are off limits to JS and windsurfers. JS must also keep 50m from any swimmers. So in policed harbours and off policed beaches JS behaviour is good but at more remote beaches they can still be a problem. Bashing around 500m offshore is boring. Slaloming through moored boats and swimmers is much more fun.

You should encourage hire establishments. I have hired them a couple of times and after the first hour it gets boring. Some of my mates have discovered this after they laid out $A16,000 for one. That said, they are great rescue craft in the surf and I have great admiration for those who jump them (away from swimmers) or tow surfers onto big waves.
 
Hi guys,

I can see from the early posts that feelings run high against PWC use.

My name is Tony and I ski with my partner Karen in Norfolk.

I must say that on the whole PWC users are a polite bunch, in fact they are a very observant and safety concious bunch at that. We are there to enjoy the water and respect everyone else's wishes too.

There is a very small rogue element who tend to "holiday" with their beaten up old ski's. They tend to be the guys who do not display a Datatag Registration above the waterline on the hulls (a bit like the yobs who have cut down numberplates on the back of their motorbikes).
Clubs here will not allow launching without proof of insurance (for which you need Datatag). I would go one further and ensure that the District Councils patrol the launch sites and ensure that anyone not displaying the Datatag registration is not allowed onto the water. Likewise, if any other water user Id's a craft without the mark, they too can report the craft to say a designated telephone number whereby the local authority may then be able to act upon the call. This telephone number could also be used to report anyone misbehaving whether they be PWC, Windsurf, Waterski's, Powerboats, well any craft whatsoever.

I'm in complete agreement with the guys (a big Hi goes out to BigMik, WaveDavy etc at PWC Forums) when they say education and communication should be used first.
I've seen it so many times where people have taken to the water without a clue as to what to do to avoid collisions, what to look for, what speed limits there are etc and not just on the sea, it happens on the Broads too. District Councils could do more there by displaying signs much as they do to show where dog owners can take their four legged friends for a dump.

I believe education is the way forward, and I feel that the minimum age for RYA training should be lowered as many families are taking to the water with younger members of these families wanting to participate.

I know for one that if you buy a new craft, the manufacturers are promoting RYA training by offering a cash back incentive once training is completed.

There is also a further financial incentive on your insurance renewals if you prove you have RYA training, you get discounts much the same as ADI on car insurance.

So let's see if we can educate those who wish to abide by the rules and stamp out the minority rogue water users to make our waterways a safer environment for all our families to enjoy.

Safe cruising guys!!
 
Perhaps we might also promote a bit of cross use, take a PWCer out on a saily boat or mobo so the PWCer can see what effect his actions may or may not have. Even discovering how hard the PWC is to spot at a distance that might be covered in 30 seconds could be very illuminating.

I expect that existing legislation is quite sufficient for all regulation that is needed, it just need enforcement. The control of launch sites seems the most effective way forward.

Thanks for the comments from PWC using posters, just like responsible and well mannered bikers, you _are_ the majority, even if that does surprise us at times:-)
 
Hear Hear ... Bravo.

I am very glad to read a broader view and I for one am getting educated -0 not being a PWC user ... I was not aware of the controls / requirements now in 'force'.

Comment only .... Is it not sad that a PWC - which in all fairness I can understand would be a good fun machine to many - has created a set of special rules and also such bad press ?? I cannot think of any other watercraft that brings out such reaction....... Isle of Wight Ferry's maybe !!

One comment that I touch on ... <<There is a very small rogue element who tend to "holiday" with their beaten up old ski's. They tend to be the guys who do not display a Datatag Registration above the waterline on the hulls (a bit like the yobs who have cut down numberplates on the back of their motorbikes).>>

Most of the silly antics / and the side-swipe I experienced ... were by new looking machines - not beaten up old jobs ... about the ID - I cannot comment as when you are catching your wife to stop her falling of the end of a swinging boom into the Solent ... you haven't time.

Out here in Latvia - I liver on a large deep river ... and we get odd ones roaring up the river ........ they have to have reg'n - must more strict here than UK .. but OH ! what a disaster they are ... generally from the mafia side of society, no cares about others ............ etc.

Anyway - I think it's sad that a sport may be lost by non-caring rogues ... but to say they are old beaten up or other is actually not my witnessing ...

I must refer again to the poster on the Stolen Craft / gear forum ... who made such wild claims etc. that really got my and others backs up ... he sought of shut-up after a while ... but the really bad thing is - he appeared to be an organiser of PWC meets / some PWC organisation allied to RYA ... Please someone tell me he is not really that bad ????

I would be more than willing / happy to give a 'ride' to a PWC person/s ... let them see the 'other side' ....

Let us ALL enjoy the last bastion of freedom - the right to play on water !!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
re

I think what Chucksta was trying to say Nigel, was that you can buy a tidy "looking" ski off ebay for £1500-£2500, and even though these machines "look" like newer, more expensive PWC's they are not...! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

There is no way I would risk damaging my £11k ski fooling around near other craft. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif... with investment comes responsibility..?
 
Re: re

Quite right RXTDOO. There's responsibilty with any craft. I'm all for ganging up on the rogues and getting them off the water. Why spoil it for the rest of us?
The RYA course teaches PWC users to watch for wind powered craft and give them priority, and quite rightly so, you never know when they need to change direction when tacking to get the wind. I feel PWC users should not be allowed to launch without RYA training, Datatag registration and insurance. Let's be sensible about this, the outlay for training is peanuts compared to the cost of our skis, and if you buy a new ski, you get near enough half the cost of the course back from the ski manufacturer. So what's the excuse for not being properly trained?
 
Re: Datatag

What's this Datatag, anyway? Is this the same anti-theft thing used for motorcycles? I'm interested in the implication that this an actual legal requirement for jet skis in this country.

I'll check out the locals this weekend, see if they have visible registration numbers.

Tony S
 
Re: Datatag

DATA TAG
it is not a legal requirement.
It is the same type of system used on bikes and quads.
it is however probably the easiest way to sort a craft to a rider.
If a model is bought from an authorised dealer, it will be tagged. if it is insured it should also be tagged.
But it can still have the numbers down the side and not be insured, or registered to that owner.

As said above nearly if not all PWC clubs in the UK now insist on insurance, and tagging. In deed the Harbour Authorities at Colwyn bay this weekend tols us they even Database the insurance details, and these get flagged up several weeks before the insurance renewal date is due.
Saying that we held an event at Colwy Bay this weekend, and the Authorities were very happy with how the event ran.

A cross over sounds like fun, but it would only be fair if you guys sampled the delights that a pwc has to offer. Heck maybe we could even fasten you in a UFO or a paraglider just for added fun.

PWC are class 1 powerboats, and should be treated with respect, i assume as would a fast sailing boat. I spend many weekends with the two sports combinned, from Lincoln water festival in the Brayford full of canal barges, to the Tall Ships at their various events throughout the country. We are human beings we all get on, Indeed the Crew tent in Portsmouth this year probably had the best mix of sea using people in the world.
 
I have read through all of your complaints about PWC users and I think you all have a fair point, however I would like to appeal that not all of us are the same and can then not be tarred with the same brush. Most of my fellow PWC users act responsibly and use the correct speed limits etc. It does however disappoint me when a handful of yobs create a reputation for the rest of us.
 
When you see programs which show the antics of some of the lottery winners (and I think we know which one in particluar I refer to) it can't be a suprise that a lot of people take to the water on s/hand, cheap jetskis, that they don't have to insure or moor or train to use.
However cheap a day's course is, how many would bother, or even know about it.
 
I have stayed out of this so far, but would like to comment from personal observations. It is not a minority that misbehave, in fact it is a minority that do follow the rules and show responsibility on the water.

The majority do not appear to understand the workings of the throttle, on - off appears to be the limit of their knowledge.

I appreciate that members of your club are trying to be diplomats, but trust me you have a long long road ahead.

My biggest personal gripe is being used as a moving waypoint. Often on calm dayz we will sail a mile or so off land and relax in the cockpit watching life go by. On almost every occasion, we will spot two or more jet ski's coming out from the shore, 'here we go again', they will come straight at us, go round and back to shore. Ok, they are being nosey, who isn't.

But for us, once sat in silence, drifting along, all hell breaks loose, drinks are spilt, the noise (Why the hell are jet ski's so damn loud???), the smell of petrol exhaust and comforting the dog who was sleeping in the sun now thinking the world is ending.

Excessive speed around moorings and anchorages is just the normal.

Now you might suggest I only notice the louts and so many of the well behaved jet skiers who believe we also have a right to peace and quiet or a still day on the mooring go unseen.

On the contrary, I tend to notice the well heeled skiers and watch in amazement as they are so far from the normal idiotic red neck owners.

Sorry if this offends, but I feel that your hobby is as anti-social as the kids driving dirt bikes through the forests when you want to go for a quite walk. You spend the whole day wondering which direction they are coming from and why did the dim witted parents buy a 12 year old a motorbike.

Do you, as a club, really believe you have a chance in stamping out such loutish behaviour, I truly think you are on a hiding to nothing.

Things I see regularly;

racing through the shallows off the beach where people are swimming
racing through the harbour
getting too close to boats at high speed
using me as a waypoint
racing through anchored boats (they even think we are impressed by this)
no understanding of rules of the road, i.e. wrong side of channel


And then

THE NOISE!!!!!

Why the NOISE, why the lickle spout of water, it looks silly!!!
 
Hi Shipswoofy,

I entirely agree with your assessment of the current situation. It is my clear experience that the MAJORITY of PWC users are ignorant of even the most basic of navigation rules, never mind the use of commonsense.

It is interesting and helpful to read the posts from PWC users here, but with respect, I believe they are kidding themselves regarding the ratio of responsible:loutish behaviour.

Yes, there are considerate users (I commented on one here very recently, who stuck to the speed limit through our moorings and whom I rowed ashore to thank) but here, on the Tamar, this chap was in an almost unique category.

I would like to see LARGE clear registration numbers on both sides of the cowlings, so that, as with 'rogue' powerboats and yachts, there would at least be a chance that action could be taken when an offence was reported.

Cheers Jerry
 
Personally I can't stand jetskis, like most people it seems, with ref to the Jeremy Vine show where at least 90% of calls were against them.

Why can't the users accept they are dangerous and environmentally damaging full stop, period? Is it in their nature, live for the day and damn the consequences for the future, the I'm alright jack attitude seems to pervade, nothing you do bothers me, I can have my fun at the expense of other peoples enjoyment!

Anyhow, like most, I like to get out on the sea to enjoy the peace and tranquility it use to offer and getting closer to nature. Unfortunately since PWC use is being restricted elsewhere they appear to be swarming round our harbour now. When they are out the seals, birds, porpoises etc dissapear - strange really. The air is filled with that lovelly whop whop sound and the smell of 2 stroke and the sea has the nice oily sheen. Alright, they say they are quieter & and less polluting but when you get 9 craft buzzing about this has to be put in perspective with the average PWC being 20 x more damaging than a typical powered craft.

With regards, to safety all I'll say is the headlines speak for themselves.

I think we need a bit of role reversal, I'd like to be given the opportunity to operate a motor bike at full revs around their house or favourite beauty spot, maybe pull a few high speed wheelies & doughnuts in close proximity to their family. Only there are a few problems with this, I have got more respect and consideration for other people and there are laws to stop me doing this.

Why can't the same laws be applied to a zone extending say 1000m from the shoreline and why can't they appreciate the problems they cause and act accordingly......I guess we all know the answer to that one?
 
i guess we must all be on a hiding to nothing.
Bring in the big guns, blow debate out of the water, lets use "i hate",
This is not one club trying to up its self, this is a forum, like yours. Members who participait in a sport they love. who care deeply about what others may think of them.
if you close the doors then you leave nothing open for the future.
this is the link on OUR site.
http://www.pwcforums.co.uk/wiz/forum_posts.asp?TID=3789&PN=1
hope it works.
as for silly spout, well its a visibility spout, used so riders can see other in the troughs of waves, not that you guys go out in the rough stuff, most sound like summer users limpit sailors. i mean why have sails if your gonna motor everywhere?.
as for noise, well most of the new craft are near impossible to hear at distance, afterall is that not why you complain on them comming up so quickly.
surely if heard from ' miles away' then pwc would be simple to spot. afterall they all travel flat out, in 2 inch of water next to everything they should never be nearCmon lets be serious.
we are trying to bridge a gap here, if its a bridge to far then fine.
we tried, lets paint the swastickers on now.
 
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