Jet ribs.

[andyc]

I have a bit of a decision to make.

I have a Loadstar 320 rib.It sits on the swim platform.It is a great tender but Im sick of the hassle with putting the outboard on it every time I want to use it.It takes alot of effort to get the outboard down there and mount it and it kills me every time.It is only a 6hp 4 stroke suzuki so doesnt plane when more that 1 up.I had a mercury 15hp 2 stroke that was great but got nicked last year when they broke into the boat....but was still heavy.

I fancy an Avon 320 or 400 jet rib.I know there has been alot of discussion about jet ribs on here,both positive and negative,but it seems to suit what I need, ie a planeing rib that I just dont have to fart about moving the outboard and I wont have the touching the bottom problem I have at the moment when we go a bit adventurous. I know it will increase the weight on the swim platform but.......well what does everybody recon?

I know the 4.0m avon is possibly pushing it a bit on a 42ft boat but the 3.2m may just do the job.

 

[jfm]

I'm confused andy. If you can fit a 320 jet, and have the lifting gear to launch its 300+kg, then you could have a 3.2-3.4m RIB with outboard. Eg the Walker Bay genesis console 3.4m with yamaha40 that I had on my last boat and Hurricane has currently. The outboard would stay on all the time. Power trim to tilt it in shallow water

FWIW I think you'll find the 320 jet noisy and hard to maintain though heavily discounted (if you get the 4 stroke), and smokey and probably well thrashed by now (if you look for a 2 stroke). Neither will track in a straight line in the marina But piles of fun at WOT in open water!

 

[Nick_H]

How are you lifting the tender onto the main boat, can't you get a bigger outboard and leave it on all the time? 4m jet rib far too big and heavy for a 42 footer in my opinion, even the 3.2 4-stroke is borderline.

 

[jfm]

How are you lifting the tender onto the main boat, can't you get a bigger outboard and leave it on all the time? 4m jet rib far too big and heavy for a 42 footer in my opinion, even the 3.2 4-stroke is borderline.

Yup 4m would be too big. Here is my last but 2 boat, phantom 42, with an Avon 3.4m (at least I think it was a 3.4). It fitted, but only just. Would look daft with anything bigger imho. This one had a 15hp yam 2 stroke which is lighter than the 4 stroke you'd have to buy today (I still have this boat; it's in Oban/Dunstaffnage on my brother's trawler yacht; running perfectly - lovely engine)

 

[andyc]

I'm confused andy. If you can fit a 320 jet, and have the lifting gear to launch its 300+kg, then you could have a 3.2-3.4m RIB with outboard. Eg the Walker Bay genesis console 3.4m with yamaha40 that I had on my last boat and Hurricane has currently. The outboard would stay on all the time. Power trim to tilt it in shallow water

But piles of fun at WOT in open water!

I know the avon 400 jet 4 stroke weighs 260kg so the 320 2 stroke must be near 200kg.
We struggle to land the 3.2 loadstar without engine on the snap davits at the mo,so will be fitting something new and with a button to launch off the back anyway.
Small Outboards get nicked in christchurch, so was hoping that a jet rib chained down as our existing is or trailered to home would be more secure. Herberts do damage trying to nick little outboards as well.
We also seem to touch the bottom a fair bit in the harbour, with my existing set up, so thought a jet would be easier access all areas.
I want more comfort so power trim[if outboard], seats and a steering wheel are required.

Maybe im trying to kill too many birds with one stone.


ps we are quite beamy at 4.2m and with the 3.2 we have a good couple of ft before it overhangs the platform each end.

 

[jfm]

I know the avon 400 jet 4 stroke weighs 260kg

Are you sure? The 4m isn't a current model so I can't see it on the website, but the 320 4 stroke with steering wheel weighs 285kg. That's dry; add 20kg of fuel, plus 10kg of water when you crane it out wet, plus 20kg for anchor and VHF and gear. On my previous Sq58, when I swapped the 2 stroke for 4 stroke, the paserrelle which was rated at 365kg and lifted the 2 stroke easily, struggled to lif the 4 stroke.

The 4.3m 4 stroke weighs 410kg btw, but I honestly think even 4m is way too big for a 42er. It will look like it doesn't fit when you get it on the transom. There's a Sq58 in antibes with the biggest tender I've ever seen on a Sq58, an Avon se400dl seasport with Honda 50 outboard. It weighs more than the passerelle is rated for, but the owners are careful and never lift it on full boom extension. The boat is 4.1m but the engine leg sticks out when tiled (long shaft) and it is only just not wider than the hull (which is 4.85m). A 4m tender, ie 10cm less, would still look huge on that boat, a 58er, so would look way too large on a 42er, imho

 

[andyc]

According to Avon the 360 is 210kg and 400 is 260kg.I am with you chaps with the 4m though.
Was looking at the Walker bay on the other thread....40 is possibly a little bit...big but with a nearly new 2 stroke merc or something , would be quite light and knock about at 20knots 4 up.Would like power tilt though.I am fed up with manually lifting the engine.

Im just concerned with herberts chainsawing the 15hp off the transom if I left it there.

 

[jfm]

According to Avon the 360 is 210kg and 400 is 260kg.

I dunno what data you are looking at. Are you reading the data for the outboard versions (where the weight excludes any engine)? They never made a 360 jet. There's no way a 400jet (which they stopped making some time ago) could ever be 260kg becuase the se400dl outboard (with NO engine) is pretty close to 260kg (I've just bought one of those). The 320 4 stroke jet weighs the figure I quoted above, for sure. I had one and a 365kg passerelle struggled, though did the job

 

[aquapower]

I dunno what data you are looking at. Are you reading the data for the outboard versions (where the weight excludes any engine)? They never made a 360 jet. There's no way a 400jet (which they stopped making some time ago) could ever be 260kg becuase the se400dl outboard (with NO engine) is pretty close to 260kg (I've just bought one of those). The 320 4 stroke jet weighs the figure I quoted above, for sure. I had one and a 365kg passerelle struggled, though did the job

A few weeks back I had to check if a passerelle would lift a jet rib and it was the Avon 320 2 stroke iirc, and it weighed about 300kg. I can confirm when I look in my note book as I will still have the details.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I dunno what data you are looking at. Are you reading the data for the outboard versions (where the weight excludes any engine)? They never made a 360 jet. There's no way a 400jet (which they stopped making some time ago) could ever be 260kg becuase the se400dl outboard (with NO engine) is pretty close to 260kg (I've just bought one of those). The 320 4 stroke jet weighs the figure I quoted above, for sure. I had one and a 365kg passerelle struggled, though did the job

Agree with you. I'm regularly looking at jetribs and I've never found one weighing less than close to 300kg which has always put me off. A 4m RIB would be far too big for a 42 footer as well. I'm still in the dark as to how the OP plans to lift a jetrib anyway. Its got to be a crane or pasarelle and the cost of one of those plus the jetrib itself has got to be north of £25k which is an awful lot of money just to avoid your o/b engine being nicked

 

[Nick_H]

Lightest jet rib is the handlebar version of the 2 stroke 320, at 210 kgs dry, so 220-250 kgs depending on fuel etc. I used to lift one with a 200kgs rated crane, which creaked a bit but always managed it.

 

[Hurricane]

We had one of the old two stroke Jetribs (handle bar) ones.
Lifted it with the Sealine's passarelle.
No problem lifting but it did creek a bit.

No end of trouble mechanically, but great fun when working.
I think everyone who has ever had one feels the same way.
You've got to have one - just to get it out of your system.
Then go and get a sensible RIB

However, we had a very interesting competition the other day.
An old style two stroke Avon Jet RIB vs a new 4 stroke one and my little Walker Bay.
The Walker Bay didnt even get a look in - far slower than both the Jet RIBs - but there wasnt much between the two Jet RIBS - in fact whe it really came to the crunch, the 4 stroke one lost because one of its spark plug leads came off!!

It was a bit of a party, actually - lots of drink so nothing serious.
You can just pick out the three RIBs in the raft.

It was also very noticeable that both the Jet RIBs towed skies and toys better than the WB RIB. But it is still possible to ski behind the WB.
See here



But the WB struggles with some of the toys - the Manta for example.



Mind you - the RIBS werent much better - sorry no videos.
This was the 4 stroke Jet RIB

But we were able to catch this shot !!!

And finally - proof that the older 2 stroke is very much up to the job

I think I had the final laugh though the Walker Bay was used to "Jump Start" the 4 stroke Jet RIB - you see, there's lots you can do to a conventional RIB - I've got a proper car battery that starts the engine first time - every time. IMO reliability wins over.

If you havent had a Jet RIB before - go ahead and have one - enjoy it for a while and then do as we all do and get a sensible RIB.

Hope you enjoy the pics and clips.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Lightest jet rib is the handlebar version of the 2 stroke 320, at 210 kgs dry, so 220-250 kgs depending on fuel etc. I used to lift one with a 200kgs rated crane, which creaked a bit but always managed it.

Nick where does that figure of 210kg come from? Avon website gives 255kg for the Seasport 320 Jet SC JC

Anyone got any idea what the safety factor applied to the lifting capacity of a passarelle is? In an industrial application, a lifting appliance might have a safety factor of 3:1 or even 5:1 although the rated lifting capacity of a crane might be as high as 75% of it's tipping load. I know the pasarelle mounting is likely to be the weakest point and the instantaneous loading will be much higher than the dead weight of the tender when it's swinging about but I'm just trying to get a feel for how much you could overload a pasarelle by when lifting a tender

 

[Nick_H]

210 kgs is the old 2 stroke, so would have to be a used model as they don't make them anymore.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

210 kgs is the old 2 stroke, so would have to be a used model as they don't make them anymore.

Ah ok. Do 2 strokes have any advantages over 4 strokes other than lighter weight?

 

[jfm]

Ah ok. Do 2 strokes have any advantages over 4 strokes other than lighter weight?

Yes. Loads simpler to maintain. In fact, apart from fresh water flushing, there is nothing to maintain. No water pump and no 4 stroke oil etc.

In contrast the weber 4 stroke is a very complex engine for this application. Turbo charged, efi, twin o/h cam, 4 valves per pot Seawater heat exchangers for the oil, the water jacket and the intercooler. Lots of sensors and J1939 electronics. All the things you need to get 100hp from such a tiny thing. But it's nowhere near the reliability rate of a yamaha outboard, I'd bet. It's also very noisy which doesn't make for a nice ride for the passengers when it's on general tender duty as opposed to towing ringos etc

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes. Loads simpler to maintain. In fact, apart from fresh water flushing, there is nothing to maintain. No water pump and no 4 stroke oil etc.

In contrast the weber 4 stroke is a very complex engine for this application. Turbo charged, efi, twin o/h cam, 4 valves per pot Seawater heat exchangers for the oil, the water jacket and the intercooler. Lots of sensors and J1939 electronics. All the things you need to get 100hp from such a tiny thing. But it's nowhere near the reliability rate of a yamaha outboard, I'd bet. It's also very noisy which doesn't make for a nice ride for the passengers when it's on general tender duty as opposed to towing ringos etc

Mmm, that sounds far too complicated and I hate things that break down. As Hurricane says, jetribs is something you get out of your system before going back to an o/b tender. Maybe I should just avoid the getting it out of your system bit altogether

 

[jfm]

Mmm, that sounds far too complicated and I hate things that break down. As Hurricane says, jetribs is something you get out of your system before going back to an o/b tender. Maybe I should just avoid the getting it out of your system bit altogether

Yup. Get it out of system vicariously through this forum. I freely admit I've been inconsitent on jetribs on here. A few years ago I thought they were great, and said so. Now you'd have to pay me to take one off you.

Are you in market for new tender generally? Did the 53 not come with a good enough tender? I think you have the besenzoni teorema 375 passerelle, same as my Sq58, rated 365kg?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Are you in market for new tender generally? Did the 53 not come with a good enough tender? I think you have the besenzoni teorema 375 passerelle, same as my Sq58, rated 365kg?

I am and I'm not. When I got the 53, it didn't have a tender. I faffed about for weeks getting other things done on it and left buying a tender to a few weeks before our summer hols. I wanted a Walker Bay but then I couldn't find a supplier in Italy or Croatia and I didn't leave enough time to get one shipped from the UK. In the end, I had to buy whatever the local chandlery could get me in time for our hols and that turned out to be an Arimar Topline 320 which in truth I haven't been altogether happy with.

It doesn't seem to be a quality product; for example the console is fixed to the floor with self tappers and it's already loose and the hull gel coat is already cracking over where it sits on the bathing platform mounts. My SWMBO doesn't like it either because the floor isn't flat at the bow and she has difficulty bracing herself when she sits on the tube. She's telling me to get another tender.

Actually I dont know what model of Besenzoni pasarelle I've got. I think somebody told me it was a 375 and it certainly swings left and right as well as up and down and has a separate winch both of which I find useful features. I am concerned about the mounting though. When the pasarelle is operated the transom moulding flexes quite a lot which makes me think I wouldn't like to overload it. I spoke to Ferretti about this and was told they all do that, sir but one of my winter jobs is to look at whether the mounting can be braced in some way.

So, yeah, I might be looking for another tender over the winter. Why, have you got one to sell?

 

[andyc]

I dunno what data you are looking at. Are you reading the data for the outboard versions (where the weight excludes any engine)? They never made a 360 jet. There's no way a 400jet (which they stopped making some time ago) could ever be 260kg becuase the se400dl outboard (with NO engine) is pretty close to 260kg (I've just bought one of those). The 320 4 stroke jet weighs the figure I quoted above, for sure. I had one and a 365kg passerelle struggled, though did the job

Yep I am man enough to admit I cocked it up.The 360 4 stroke jet, in the 2010 catalogue is 285kg.I think I was looking at the rib less outboard.

I did find the old spec for the 2 stroke somewhere on the net.

I think I will have a go with one first to see if it is what I want.I wont go 4 stroke for weight and complexity.I have all winter to decide.I just know that when I go boating I want it to be as easy as possible and at the moment the tender is hard work to launch and pack up.
I am not looking at a passarelle /crane,but a cantilever system that sort of scoops up the tender to swim platform level and deposits it on the edge. I need to research it.