J111 steering issue

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Jim715

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I was wondering if there are any experts out there that could give me some advice..

I have a 2 year old J111 thats fitted with Type 1 upper and lower JP3 bearings and when sailing under heavy loads we are experiencing huge amounts of rudder friction.

I've dropped the rudder and the bearings look in ok condition, but I'm unsure of what the maintenance procedure should be for this type of bearing. Im used to dealing with the roller type.

Another possiblity is that the sheaves at the bottom of the pedalstal are not directly underneath (inline) with the sprocket. So its pulling at a slight angle, a block under both sheaves would fix this. Could this be the cause?

Its a Lewmar chain and wire system with a 260 quadrant.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
 
Welcome to the Forum! Great choice of boat.

With such a young boat, I strongly suggest you speak to J-UK, tel 02380 455669, as there may be a warranty issue here as you should not be experiencing this type of issue at this age. Even if they did not supply the boat, they may be able to give you some good advice or point you to someone useful who can. I have an American built J105 and they have been most helpful to me over the years, even though they did not sell me the boat. Otherwise, if you send me a PM (private message), I can put you in touch with some friends who are also J111 owners in Fowey and some others in Solent who have had their boat for 3 years or so from new, who you may be able to compare notes with. There may also be an American J111 owners on-line forum, as there is for the J105, which might be useful to consult. Otherwise, perhaps there is a UK J111 Association you could contact.

Hope you can get things sorted.
 
If you don't get a response on here, it might be worthwhile trying Sailing Anarchy who have a J Boat forum. I've not noticed anyone mentioning a J111 on here before. It might be a specific known issue with the J111.

Other than that, consider whether nylon bearings have taken up water. If that were so you'd notice it would get stiffer over time.

If the bearings are self-aligning, it would also be worth checking for wear, which would indicate excessive friction.

My hunch is that if it was the run of the steering cables, it would be no worse now that it was when the boat was new. Do you see wear on the cables?
 
Jim715 said:
I was wondering if there are any experts out there that could give me some advice..

I have a 2 year old J111 thats fitted with Type 1 upper and lower JP3 bearings and when sailing under heavy loads we are experiencing huge amounts of rudder friction.

I've dropped the rudder and the bearings look in ok condition, but I'm unsure of what the maintenance procedure should be for this type of bearing. Im used to dealing with the roller type.

Another possiblity is that the sheaves at the bottom of the pedalstal are not directly underneath (inline) with the sprocket. So its pulling at a slight angle, a block under both sheaves would fix this. Could this be the cause?

Its a Lewmar chain and wire system with a 260 quadrant.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Is this a problem that have developed over time or suddenly appeared?
If it was there from new - it must be a warranty case.
 
I've seen an Ertalyte ball like your JP3 one swell tight beyond makers tolerances, but I suspect it was from material defect: bad batch of plastic.
Check if the rudder turns by hand if you disconnect the cables (be careful not to drop the chain!!!)
If you can check the ball on the hard you might find it has swollen, in which case the ball has to come out. Think hoe-handle for a lever and you'll get an idea how tight it can get!
The acetal ball can actually be reduced with waterpaper without fear because it doesn't actually move much, so trial fitting isn't an issue, incidentally.
Check the boat's pedigree with her previous owners by all means, but the agents might want to bleed your pockets to make your boat feel better!
 
Thanks for all your suggestions.

It's an issue that has developed. There is wear on the cables as they rub on the rudder stop when on full lock, bad design.

If any one as any photos of the quadrant set up on this boat, please post as I would love to see how its supposed to be set up.

Thanks
 
I would speak to builder and designer before I did anything.

Is it possible the top of the rudder blade is binding on the hull?
 
Hello Jim,

Welcome aboard.

I had a similar problem on my past boat; the bearings were nylon or Teflon and absorbed moisture.

I solved the problem by having a similar bearing cut from Vesconite.

GL!!
 
If it was an issue of bearings swelling then it would affect steering at all times and not just under heavy load. I would be more suspicious about something being worn or broken in the steering system. It seems unlikely that the rudder would flex enough under load to foul the hull so first check all the Lewmar bits. If you have the facility to disconnect the steering and helm using the emergency set up that would allow you to determine which part - rudder or helm - was causing the issue.

If it is in the rudder then I would be wondering what was altering under load. It could be that the bearings are shot or maybe the structure inside the blade had given way and the blade is bending and fouling the hull

I am assuming in this that you are familiar with the boat and what you are saying is heavy steering is a change from what used to be the case - as opposed to you being new to the boat and being surprised by whjat is a typical characteristic of the type.
 
Last edited:
Monique said:
Hello Jim,

Welcome aboard.

I had a similar problem on my past boat; the bearings were nylon or Teflon and absorbed moisture.

I solved the problem by having a similar bearing cut from Vesconite.

GL!!
Click to expand...
Vesconite also absorbs moisture and you need to allow for this in the clearances but the far greater dimensional change is from thermal expansion.

Teflons problem in bearings that might see high loads is it is soft so is generally used as a filler or thin surface film.

I've heard of a number of problems with roller self aligning rudder bearings and we have replaced these with spherical composite on composite or plain bushes. I think the carbon stock in some boats needs the self aligning bearings to cope with the flex in the stock
 
TBH I never thought the boat might have a flexi carbon rudder stock. In which case its a different issue. I would still try to use the emergency steering just to make sure it is the rudder, but if it is a rudder issue with a flexi carbon stock then I have nothing useful to offer in the way of advice.
 
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