It's really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

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cmedsailor

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It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

I am a subsciber of yachting monthly but very often I also buy Practical Boat Owner. Both are excellent magazines. However it is getting boring to read all the time articles that older boats are better than new ones etc etc. I really don't understand the purpose of this. I don't claim that new ones are better than old ones but why the vice versa? Technology is changing, materials are changing (heavier is NOT always safer for God sake), new ideas, new designs.... Why all these are ignored?
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

Probably because seafarers tend to be a conservative bunch - they like what is proven perhaps....
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

OK I understand this but again this is not a good reason. I see all the time statements like the older Bavarias, the older Beneteaus the older whatever were constucted better bla bla. What about the newer? Should we wait 10 years from now so that they become good too?
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

[ QUOTE ]
OK I understand this but again this is not a good reason. I see all the time statements like the older Bavarias, the older Beneteaus the older whatever were constucted better bla bla. What about the newer? Should we wait 10 years from now so that they become good too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trouble is they probably wont
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are bett

As the owner of an old fibreglass boat I hadn't noticed the bias. There may be the odd throwaway comment in the depths of a review on the latest offerings from Bavaria et. al., but to be honest, to spend my evenings reading someone else's opinions on a modern boat that I wouldn't want, even if I could afford it, is not something it's crossed my mind to do.
I find most of the articles, especially in YM, have the opposite bias, i.e. they assume that everyone changes their (nearly new) boat every couple of years and sails a 38 foot modern cruiser packed full of electronics and all mod. cons.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

[ QUOTE ]
Trouble is they probably wont

[/ QUOTE ]

You may well find that was said by someone when the first GRP boat was launched.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

I once drilled a 40mm hole through a Westerly 22 to fit a log impeller.

The 40mm refers not just to the diameter of the hole but to the depth I had to drill through. Rocks shrank away as I sailed past. They don't build them like that anymore!

And I had a bowsprit which could impale most later creations.

On the other hand windward was seldom an option.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are bett

[ QUOTE ]
Probably because seafarers tend to be a conservative bunch - they like what is proven perhaps....

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's fair to say that yachties are conservative, but put a bunch of new build boat pics up and the mobo lads will drool all over them. The yachties on the other hand will moan about keels dropping off and thin hulls etc.

Interestingly, I heard a dealer say recently that Jeanneau now for example have automated a lot of their process and cuttings in the deck are done by machine. This means no more Monday morning or Friday afternoon variations to the standard by Jean-Luc or Pierre. It's horses for courses.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

There's no doubt that some of the older boats such as Nicholsons and Rivals still make good solid yachts. However, performance and accomodation have come on leaps and bounds and modern boats offer much more per pound. Many smaller yachts, under 30 ft, in the 70s looked awful and sailed worse, with pinched sterns. As for seakindliness; I have an idea it's another word for slow. A fine entry will give a more comfortable ride in most conditions as well as being faster.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are bett

[ QUOTE ]
As the owner of an old fibreglass boat I hadn't noticed the bias. There may be the odd throwaway comment in the depths of a review on the latest offerings from Bavaria et. al., but to be honest, to spend my evenings reading someone else's opinions on a modern boat that I wouldn't want, even if I could afford it, is not something it's crossed my mind to do.
I find most of the articles, especially in YM, have the opposite bias, i.e. they assume that everyone changes their (nearly new) boat every couple of years and sails a 38 foot modern cruiser packed full of electronics and all mod. cons.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because they live on another planet from us ordinary mortals......
 
So what would you do if you were the magazine owner?

If you omit 'old' and 'older' then as your numbers drop the bean counters will be questioning your job. If you go all out for more modern designs then it'll be just the same.

Mags, for better or worse have to play the punters - all of them all of the time, try to retain the old punters who have been round the same cyle at least three times and at the same time try to recruit more newbies (than those giving up) so that they can become regulars till they drop out and just go sailing ........

If you want to complain, then don't complain here. Write to the YM/Horse & Hound bean counters and ask them what makes circulation tick /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

For a short-term refreshing change, you might look over the pond at "Cruising World" (Very cheap subscription)
 
Re: So what would you do if you were the magazine owner?

Whatever happened to pretty boats though? Pretty bows and pretty sheerlines? No such thing any more. At the boat show the other day I looked down a line of boats and every one had an almost perpendicular bow. Modern boats have more beam and take the beam further aft so they're much bigger down below ... how much room do you need? My wife and I live in a huge 5 bedroom house ... and she's only little! Is more room vital? So they sail faster ... I confess I prefer the journey to the arrival ... I don't mind taking longer, at weekends anyway - bit different crossing the Channel. Worst of all - most new boats have all the aesthetic qualities of a fridge! And wooden boats have personality ... plastic ones don't. Take my word for it ... I've got one of each. ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

Quote. Should we wait 10 years from now so that they become good too?

No, but posibly wait ten years by which time they will further reduced quality and make them for half the price, thus making todays model look better.

It happened in the seventies and eighties so why not again?
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

I've had old boats for years whilst working my way up the ladder towards a new boat. Not quite there yet as my latest boat is nearly 3 years old, and has just been replaced by a newer model. I would have a new boat any day over an old boat. For all the criticism thrown by some at new boats/designs, I suspect that many are a touch envious of those that happily shell out well over £100k for a new one and enjoy massive living space, no diesel/dampness/mouldy smells, warm heating or aircon, flat screen telly, music system, electronics that all work, no wires hanging from the ceiling, fridges, freezer, en-suite toilets and showers, little maintenance, a warranty, fast cruising, elecrtic winches, silent reliable new engine, more economical. The list goes on. Oh and for the folks that think these soul less plastic boats with the "personality of a fridge get overwhelmed by a F6 10 miles off the coast, check out the World ARC and ARC for the number of these plastic things carrying people successfully throughout the world with little or no drama attributed directly to the design of the boat. Don't seem to see too many old boat designs in that list of ocean going travellers. Neither do I see old designs in any of the ocean going regattas, whom I am sure with money no object go for the best designs which as far as I can tell are a lot closer to a modern cruiser hull than anything wooden or from the 60's, 70's or 80's. Older is always better is just a plain load of b^ll**ks.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are better

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Neither do I see old designs in any of the ocean going regattas, whom I am sure with money no object go for the best designs which as far as I can tell are a lot closer to a modern cruiser hull than anything wooden or from the 60's, 70's or 80's. Older is always better is just a plain load of b^ll**ks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should study the entry list for the Jester 2010?? Still there's not much that's more water tight than a closed mind?? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are bett

Dear Chrusty...
only 3 boats finished the Jester 2006.

And the winner was...... a Beneteau Figaro 30 racing boat. Lightweight plastic fantastic tupperware tub.


And by how much did he win? More than a year in the case of Glayva.

I often wonder who has the closed minds round here.
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are bett

Precisely....

The Jester is far from a good example to use, as its intentionally positioned as a bit of a 'corinthian' event, designed to attract entrants that aren't working to large budgets....

Regardless.... I'm planning a RTW in a modern plastic boat....

Car designers have spent years perfecting how to make lighter, stiffer vehicles with the assistance of complex computer calculations..... Better tell them that they're wrong, and the Morris Marina was a better vehicle by far as it was heavier, older and built out of basic materials.... how annoyed they will be with themselves for wasting all those billions of pounds on R&D.....

<sigh>
 
Re: It\'s really getting boring of reading articles that older are bett

Ever been to a marina used by Sunsail? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously.... surely your not implying that they leave all the clever designing until after they've crash tested them?
 
Re: So what would you do if you were the magazine owner?

I think most yotties like to keep an open mind about old and new.

Many of the 'old is best' brigade are effectively weekend 'sailing re-inactment' bods who are generally over hairy and like making longbows out of condemned bowsprits. They are also likely to be closet Morris dancers and sit on committees of Real Ale organisations. They would also rather spend ten years rebuilding some god forsaken hulk than actually going for a sail. Do you really want to listen to these people ? Most of us don't.

Most of us like and appreciate all boats . Personally, I like Classic Boat and Yachting World and not much in between.

I do think that we have generally gone overboard on 'function' on many things in life and boats may be one of them. The Victorians and Romans some would argue were the best at combining both function and beauty. Perhaps the pendulum will swing again one day soon.
 
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