It's not just PWCs

[Ubergeekian]

From the BBC News website:

Two women canoeists have been rescued from the Sound of Mull after capsizing and spending three hours in the water.

A search involving Tobermory Lifeboat, Clyde Coastguard and a Navy rescue helicopter was sparked after the alarm was raised at about 1100 BST.

The pair were picked up by a boat after being spotted by the MV Clansman ferry.

They were taken ashore and transferred to hospital suffering from suspected hypothermia. Details of their condition have not yet been released.

Clyde Coastguard watch manager Calum Murray said the two women had been pitched into the water by the wake of a passing speedboat.​

Is it conceivable that the driver of the speedboat wouldn't have know what s/he had done? Had either or both of the canoeists died, would culpable homicide charges be appropriate? Are other charges appropriate now?

My recent experience on the Clyde has been that 80% of motor boats are well and courteously driven: the other 20% seem to be in the hands of the rude, the ignorant or the psychopathic.

 

[snowleopard]

Is it conceivable that the driver of the speedboat wouldn't have know what s/he had done?

I once watched a large mobo go past an area of moorings where there were 20 or 30 boats in the sub 30 foot range. As the wash hit the moored boats they rolled up to 40° each way but by then the mobo was 1/4 mile away and obviously unaware what he had done.

 

[colvic987]

I once watched a large mobo go past an area of moorings where there were 20 or 30 boats in the sub 30 foot range. As the wash hit the moored boats they rolled up to 40° each way but by then the mobo was 1/4 mile away and obviously unaware what he had done.

That happens most weekend on the menai straits, just because there is a wide fairway up past bangor pier, with moorings of all types of boats, they still blast past, some even like to go thru the moorings, so they can show off. not a time to make a cup of tea and have a hot kettle in your hand...

 

[Searush]

I've already posted this elsewhere, but I waved cheerily at a couple of largish modern MoBos travelling fast last week and was surprised to be completely ignored - until I looked closer & realised that they could only see straight ahead from the helm position. Fancy "designer" sweeping superstucture curves completely masked their view to either side. And I have never yet seen a MoBo driver look behind him, after all no-one could possibly be going faster than them could they? So they will never know how many canoeists or small boat fishermen they have swamped & drowned.

Having said that, if the women really were in a CANOE (which is open) rather than a KAYAK (which is completely enclosed & can be rolled back upright), then they were in a vessel quite unsuited for the water or conditions they were in.

 

[LittleSister]

Having said that, if the women really were in a CANOE (which is open) rather than a KAYAK (which is completely enclosed & can be rolled back upright), then they were in a vessel quite unsuited for the water or conditions they were in.

Only in American English! In UK parlance canoe includes both 'Canadian' canoes (open) and kayaks (enclosed). Hence 'British Canoe Union', 'Canoe England', etc., most of whose members paddle kayaks. Shorter Oxford English Dictionary - canoe 'A narrow keelless boat propelled by paddling; specifically (a) one simply constructed from a hollowed out tree trunk or of a wooden frame covered with skins,canoe bark, etc.; (b) a lightweight recreational craft resembling an Eskimo kayak, made from fibreglass or wood, etc.'

That said, the American parlance has been gaining currency over here in the last few years as the influence of its market and culture spreads.

The main potential problem with using a Canadian canoe on the sea (apart from the over-flat hull shape of the commonest ones) is not buoyancy or openness (many are used in very serious white-water, fitted with covers and massive buoyancy) but that they have a lot of hull in the air and are too affected by the wind (and you only have half a paddle to propel it with!).

But back to the original scenario, one shouldn't really be at sea in a canoe or kayak if you can't do support strokes to deal with wakes and big waves, and without some means of being able to self-rescue (i.e. get back in the boat). (I can't say I've never done it, but . . .)

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Clyde Coastguard watch manager Calum Murray said the two women had been pitched into the water by the wake of a passing speedboat.

He said: "Although the two canoeists were adequately dressed and were wearing buoyancy aids - which ultimately led to the fact that they were able to stay afloat in the water for such a sustained period - they did not have radios or other communications devices to allow them to make a distress call.

"The weather on scene was force 4 to 5, gusting to 6, which is not ideal for open canoes."

A classic example of British understatement....

 

[Searush]

That's interesting as the BCU definition of single sided paddled boats that you kneel in (enclosed or open) is C1 or C2 depending on the number of paddlers & for boats with double ended paddles that you sit in it is K1 & K2. I was told when doing my Senior Instructor training that this was C for canadian & K for kayak, but maybe definitions change over the years & depending on who cites them.

I would be very concerned about anyone using an open canadian on the sea as the apparent stability is mainly due to the wide flat bottom & the occupants are usually sat high on seats (few people kneel to paddle as the design intended). This makes them very susceptible to being tipping over by wash. Trying to right & re-enter a swamped open canadian is extremely difficult, as is baling it out. I agree that high topsides will compromise one's ability to deal wind and the flat bottom may make directional stability in transverse waves difficult too, but these poor people were swamped & unable to self-recover, not blown out to sea.

I don't actually think we are disagreeing - rather more using different terminology & perspectives.

 

[LittleSister]

That's interesting as the BCU definition of single sided paddled boats that you kneel in (enclosed or open) is C1 or C2 depending on the number of paddlers & for boats with double ended paddles that you sit in it is K1 & K2. I was told when doing my Senior Instructor training that this was C for canadian & K for kayak, but maybe definitions change over the years & depending on who cites them.

I don't actually think we are disagreeing - rather more using different terminology & perspectives.

Yes on both counts!

In traditional UK English terminology: Canoe = general term covering both Canadian canoes and kayaks. Canadian canoe = specific term for open canoe, descendent of the North American bark skinned open canoes and normally used with a single bladed padddle (C1 & C2). Kayak = specific term for covered canoe derived from sealskin covered Inuit kayaks, normally paddled with a double-ended paddle (K1 & K2).

In American English terminology: Canoe = as Canadian canoe above. Kayak = as kayak above.

In British Canoe Union management-speak 'paddlesports' = canoeing.


I do my sea canoeing in a kayak, and my 'Canadian' canoe was made in Runcorn!

 

[oldharry]

That's interesting as the BCU definition of single sided paddled boats that you kneel in (enclosed or open) is C1 or C2 depending on the number of paddlers & for boats with double ended paddles that you sit in it is K1 & K2. I was told when doing my Senior Instructor training that this was C for canadian & K for kayak, but maybe definitions change over the years & depending on who cites them.

I would be very concerned about anyone using an open canadian on the sea as the apparent stability is mainly due to the wide flat bottom & the occupants are usually sat high on seats (few people kneel to paddle as the design intended). This makes them very susceptible to being tipping over by wash. Trying to right & re-enter a swamped open canadian is extremely difficult, as is baling it out. I agree that high topsides will compromise one's ability to deal wind and the flat bottom may make directional stability in transverse waves difficult too, but these poor people were swamped & unable to self-recover, not blown out to sea.



I don't actually think we are disagreeing - rather more using different terminology & perspectives.

Having been a keen 'canoeist' before I could afford a yacht, I can say both sides of this debate are right. Yes, Searushes definition differentiates between open Canadian style canoes, and Kayaks, but the generic term for all these craft is 'Canoe'. Back in the 1950s as a spotty and broke yoof, I built and went considerable distances in various 'canoes', all designed and advertised as such by such people as Tyne Canoes, and Percy Blandford. These were in modern parlance 'kyaks' built of wood and canvas, or plywood, but were invariably referred to as Canoes. Canadian style canoes were always referred to as 'Canadian Canoes' and were usually lightweight glued strip carvel hulls, way beyond spotty yoof budgets! . Go to a supplier and ask for a Canoe, you would be shown what we now call a Kyak. Ask for a Kyak, and you would be shown a specific design similar to the traditional Eskimo Kyak with upturned ends, still seen in GRP today for seagoing use.

But the generic term 'Canoe' remains for all 3 types whether sit in or sit on, Kyak, or canadian.

It was not entirely coincidence my first yacht was a Percy Blandford Lysander!

 

[Little Rascal]

Wakes

RNLI report here clarifies: http://www.rnli.org.uk/who_we_are/press_centre/news_releases/news_release_detail?articleid=602803

It was an open canoe (unambiguous term I hope) in Salen Bay

No mention of the wake though...

Earlier this year I was in a Cornish Shrimper in the Carrick Roads when the wind fell light. It seemed to bring the petrolheads out anyway and one particular chap in a 50 footer came planing past a hundred yards or so away. We only just had steerage way to turn into the wake. "Roadhogs!" as Norman Wisdom would put it.