Italy

[Jamie Dundee]

Is that the boat that was impounded by the Italian authorities a few years ago?

Possibly, that photo would have been taken around 2012/13.

 

[MapisM]

He isn't based there by accident.
Well, I think he might have been to start with.
IIRC, he was en-route to the west and got stuck because he liked it so much.

Indeed. Our original idea was to spend one year or two there, and then move somewhere else in Sardinia, and afterwards, who knows?
But after the first season, we had already decided to stay a bit longer because we very much liked the place - in spite of the fact that we were still working and commuting back then, which as Deleted User correctly pointed out means quite a trip back and forth, also for us.
And eventually, on top of the nice place, having met a lot of nice people is what made us lose any wish to move elsewhere, and call the place home.
Of course, being Italian ourselves was a somewhat relevant component in this decision, but the place is also amazingly more international than anyone would expect.
In fact, this small island has by far the strongest maritime heritage compared to anywhere else in Sardinia, with the only dedicated high school, well respected also in mainland Italy - and before anyone mention, nope, that's NOT where Schettino came from!
So, many of the old locals spent their working life in command of ships around the seven seas, and quite a few still are.
Besides, just among our group of good friends, we count a Brit, a French and a lady from Ecuador - all of which spend most of their time here.
Oh, and yeah, while food is a sort of religion just about anywhere in Italy, here on average it's definitely on another level compared to say Milan or N Italy in general. Burger and chips aside, admittedly.
For that stuff, I can think of a place in Milan which is way better than anything available not only in CF, but also in Sardinia as a whole.
But I'm not going to take a plane anytime soon for that reason alone...!

 

[MapisM]

Possibly

Nope, certainly.
The man is pathologically narcissistic, to the point of calling his humble toy FB, and then pretend with the fiscal authorities that he is just a guest of a charter company he has nothing to see with.
The impounding eventually ended with a plea deal, whose terms I half recall to have read but now escape me.

 

[Hooligan]

I've not got any definitive rates but 2 things already put me off. First, I'm told that the beam restrictions will be tighter on the new leases so whilst at the moment we fit on a 20m berth, the new restriction means we'll have to go onto a 23m berth despite the boat being just under 20m long and that will mean we will have to rent a 23m berth at an even higher cost. Second, the prices being asked for berth leases are very high and at least initially those are going to drive rental rates

I hope I'm wrong but I think annual rental rates for 23m berths could be well north of €30-35k pa. 6 yrs ago I bought a prime 20m berth lease for the equivalent of €20k pa. I'm simply not going to pay nearly double that pa to park my boat in the same marina on a possibly less attractive berth

As I say maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath

That is completely ridiculous. €30 to 35k? Plus i read that 20m boats wont be able to even go anywhere and anchor except out to sea. How does that work? Can’t actually go to where you want but berthing prices go higher? And in any case the chance of France letting the Brits in this summer seems like zero after we “stole” all their vaccine because they are so incompetent they wouldn’t commit to helping their own companies develop one.

 

[BartW]

additional to all the advice above,
Here are some notes from our experiences in Italy.

Toscane, Giglio, Gianutri, Porto Ercole should be on your bucketlist,
And on your way to that region, Portofino, Cinque terre, Porto venere, Elba - porto Ferrailo all wordth a visit !
For longer term stay, Cala Galera or Porto Ercole is nice, good homebase for the islands, and worth a try , (not sure about airport nearby)

Avoid Rome region, apart for service and refurbishing yards, nothing todo there re boat holiday’s

Pontini islands are worth a vist while on route to… but nothing more

Naples and Amalfi region, very nice, and lots to see,
BUT
Extremely busy, posh Italians navigating THROUGH anchorages, with their powerfull Itama’s, at just over displacement speed, and creating huge waves, and passing anchored boats much too close.
Similar with local professional side seeing boats for tourists. My guests were afraid for swimming behind our boat,
Although we have zero speeds stabs, my wife was totally fed up with all that after one season, so we went on to Sardegna.
Apart from that, the region is stunning.
I loved: Maiori, Amalfi, Sorento, Porto D’ Ischia!!, Procida, …and many more places, …

we were based both in Ormegio Autuori in Salerno, and marina d'Arechi the latter is clean, and one snackbar-restaurant but that’s it, nothing todo there, the city, Salerno is at 7km distance,
We go regularly to the boat in the “off” season, and then its nice to have resto’s, shops, the city.. etc. at walking distance, Ormegio Autuori is one of these concession in the main harbor of Salerno, there are also others, port is nothing, (floating dock’s with electric and water) but its at walking distance from the nice center of the city Salerno. In This big city one can find all kind of services.
If we ever go back to the region I would probably base us again in Salerno Harbour, or in Marina di Stabia, (much closer to Naples) lots of services, and much closer to Naples airport.

next,
Sardegna Costa Esmeralda, les maddalena’s, very nice, really worth a visit, but I don’t fancy to be their based permanently. (its all a bit too artificial / posh tourists for me) I liked the old city’s Maddalena and Olbia.
Other regions in Sardegna are less crowded, much more inetresting, and at least as nice as the costa, at a fraction of the price.

We are currently based in the south, Sardegna’s capital Cagliari, this place pleases us very much, bcs
Marina Porto Karalis is in the midle of a nice city,
Airport at 10 mins; taxi / rentcar / borrowed car ;-) / train (trainstation at 300m from Marina)
And in summer we spend quite some time near Isola San Pietro / Carloforte/ Mapism’s homebase.

Currently planning our 4th season in south Sardegna, no plans for leaving yet.
And a nice extra feature there is that resto’s, marina, and most services are cheap.
Atm we pay 15000euro / y /22m and that’s including water, electric and car parking !

To my experience its fairly easy to get a berth in south Italy and Sardegna, but I’m spoiled I have 2 local private agents that makes booking far more easy in a region where they hardly speak a word of English


Some years ago, when coming from Montenegro, We have passed along Sicily ( Catania and Taormina) and Lipari islands and Stromboli ! but still need to go back there for a more thorough exploration

 

[markc]

I've not got any definitive rates but 2 things already put me off. First, I'm told that the beam restrictions will be tighter on the new leases so whilst at the moment we fit on a 20m berth, the new restriction means we'll have to go onto a 23m berth despite the boat being just under 20m long and that will mean we will have to rent a 23m berth at an even higher cost. Second, the prices being asked for berth leases are very high and at least initially those are going to drive rental rates

I hope I'm wrong but I think annual rental rates for 23m berths could be well north of €30-35k pa. 6 yrs ago I bought a prime 20m berth lease for the equivalent of €20k pa. I'm simply not going to pay nearly double that pa to park my boat in the same marina on a possibly less attractive berth

As I say maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but I'm not holding my breath

Wow, that's nuts. Our lease expired on 31st Dec and I was a little worried about a massive price rise for an annual contract, but surprisingly when I got the contract a couple of weeks ago turns out it works out less than before. Glad I can stay put for a while.

 

[BartW]

Wow, that's nuts. Our lease expired on 31st Dec and I was a little worried about a massive price rise for an annual contract, but surprisingly when I got the contract a couple of weeks ago turns out it works out less than before. Glad I can stay put for a while.

Hi Marc,
is there still a long waiting list or is it easy to get a berth (22m) in your marina ?
can you give a indication of berth price for a year ? or PM

you like it there ?
how long do you drive to the airport?

unfortunately I've never been able to visit that marina,, during the 3y we were in Sof,
on the few occasions we tried, (in high season) no berth available for a night (and no connections )
but I have to admid that we were mostly West of St Raf, and one season, much more east of St Raf.

 

[MedMilo]

We did about 15 years in Mallorca (Cala D’or) and for the last 10 years or so have moved steadily east - Mahon, Sardinia (Portisco and Santa Teresa di Gallura), Marina di Scarlino, Marina D’Arechi and now Gouvia in Corfu. Lots of useful perspectives on this thread in terms of the pros and cons of the various cruising grounds and I certainly agree that Corsica / Sardinia, plus surrounding islands (Elba etc), are really special and not to be missed. Amalfi is also great though I’d say the food, wine and culture trump the actual cruising/boating side of things; but that’s no bad thing! The biggest eye opener’s been that the berthing and maintenance costs seem to drop steadily as you head east, to the point where our berth in Gouvia costs about a third of that in Cala D’or. At this rate, by the time we get to Bodrum they’ll be paying us to tie up!!! But the best bit is that the boating in the Ionian is really the best we’ve ever experienced anywhere in the Med, in terms of the kind of boating we love to do - mostly at anchor, no silly restrictions, protected seas (mostly ‘landlocked’) and good food / wine!

 

[Clancy Moped]

We did about 15 years in Mallorca (Cala D’or) and for the last 10 years or so have moved steadily east - Mahon, Sardinia (Portisco and Santa Teresa di Gallura), Marina di Scarlino, Marina D’Arechi and now Gouvia in Corfu. Lots of useful perspectives on this thread in terms of the pros and cons of the various cruising grounds and I certainly agree that Corsica / Sardinia, plus surrounding islands (Elba etc), are really special and not to be missed. Amalfi is also great though I’d say the food, wine and culture trump the actual cruising/boating side of things; but that’s no bad thing! The biggest eye opener’s been that the berthing and maintenance costs seem to drop steadily as you head east, to the point where our berth in Gouvia costs about a third of that in Cala D’or. At this rate, by the time we get to Bodrum they’ll be paying us to tie up!!! But the best bit is that the boating in the Ionian is really the best we’ve ever experienced anywhere in the Med, in terms of the kind of boating we love to do - mostly at anchor, no silly restrictions, protected seas (mostly ‘landlocked’) and good food / wine!

I wouldnt bank on it! We paid slightly more in Marmmaris than we did in Barcelona (Port Vell) and Bodrum is more expensive than Marrmaris?

 

[MedMilo]

I wouldnt bank on it! We paid slightly more in Marmmaris than we did in Barcelona (Port Vell) and Bodrum is more expensive than Marrmaris?

Oh dear, that’s pity!! Actually I think the truth of it is that there’s the SoF, Balearics, Costa Smeralda and then the rest of the Med - oversimplification on my part I’m sure, but broadly speaking berthing in the former three areas seems to be about double the rest of the Med. The infrastructure, airline access and general sophistication probably account for much of that difference and as ever, everyone has different value parameters.

 

[Hooligan]

additional to all the advice above,
Here are some notes from our experiences in Italy.

Toscane, Giglio, Gianutri, Porto Ercole should be on your bucketlist,
And on your way to that region, Portofino, Cinque terre, Porto venere, Elba - porto Ferrailo all wordth a visit !
For longer term stay, Cala Galera or Porto Ercole is nice, good homebase for the islands, and worth a try , (not sure about airport nearby)

Avoid Rome region, apart for service and refurbishing yards, nothing todo there re boat holiday’s

Pontini islands are worth a vist while on route to… but nothing more

Naples and Amalfi region, very nice, and lots to see,
BUT
Extremely busy, posh Italians navigating THROUGH anchorages, with their powerfull Itama’s, at just over displacement speed, and creating huge waves, and passing anchored boats much too close.
Similar with local professional side seeing boats for tourists. My guests were afraid for swimming behind our boat,
Although we have zero speeds stabs, my wife was totally fed up with all that after one season, so we went on to Sardegna.
Apart from that, the region is stunning.
I loved: Maiori, Amalfi, Sorento, Porto D’ Ischia!!, Procida, …and many more places, …

we were based both in Ormegio Autuori in Salerno, and marina d'Arechi the latter is clean, and one snackbar-restaurant but that’s it, nothing todo there, the city, Salerno is at 7km distance,
We go regularly to the boat in the “off” season, and then its nice to have resto’s, shops, the city.. etc. at walking distance, Ormegio Autuori is one of these concession in the main harbor of Salerno, there are also others, port is nothing, (floating dock’s with electric and water) but its at walking distance from the nice center of the city Salerno. In This big city one can find all kind of services.
If we ever go back to the region I would probably base us again in Salerno Harbour, or in Marina di Stabia, (much closer to Naples) lots of services, and much closer to Naples airport.

next,
Sardegna Costa Esmeralda, les maddalena’s, very nice, really worth a visit, but I don’t fancy to be their based permanently. (its all a bit too artificial / posh tourists for me) I liked the old city’s Maddalena and Olbia.
Other regions in Sardegna are less crowded, much more inetresting, and at least as nice as the costa, at a fraction of the price.

We are currently based in the south, Sardegna’s capital Cagliari, this place pleases us very much, bcs
Marina Porto Karalis is in the midle of a nice city,
Airport at 10 mins; taxi / rentcar / borrowed car ;-) / train (trainstation at 300m from Marina)
And in summer we spend quite some time near Isola San Pietro / Carloforte/ Mapism’s homebase.

Currently planning our 4th season in south Sardegna, no plans for leaving yet.
And a nice extra feature there is that resto’s, marina, and most services are cheap.
Atm we pay 15000euro / y /22m and that’s including water, electric and car parking !

To my experience its fairly easy to get a berth in south Italy and Sardegna, but I’m spoiled I have 2 local private agents that makes booking far more easy in a region where they hardly speak a word of English


Some years ago, when coming from Montenegro, We have passed along Sicily ( Catania and Taormina) and Lipari islands and Stromboli ! but still need to go back there for a more thorough exploration

Agree re the Amalfi coast. I think for that stretch its all about the food and wine onshore. For me the cruising grounds are definitely up into Ischia, Procida etc or down to Aeolians, Sicily which we prefer if i had to choose. Capri is the same as anchoring off Amalfi or Positano and I would avoid especially as the anchorages are really deep so everyone is tightly bunched together. We are thinking of a cruise down to S Sardinia this summer - travel restrictions allowing of course, so may run into you down there. In fact I am planning the boating season now......we are all allowed to have our dreams to get through this

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That is completely ridiculous. €30 to 35k? Plus i read that 20m boats wont be able to even go anywhere and anchor except out to sea. How does that work? Can’t actually go to where you want but berthing prices go higher? And in any case the chance of France letting the Brits in this summer seems like zero after we “stole” all their vaccine because they are so incompetent they wouldn’t commit to helping their own companies develop one.

That is just an educated guess on the price but I have definitely been told I will have to move to a 23m berth. Yes it is true that 20m+ boats are now banned from certain anchorages but it remains to be seen how rigorously that is enforced although I am aware of one 20m+ boat that has already been fined in Villefranche

And yes, thanks to the EU's incompetent vaccine handling (although there is a discussion to be had on why that has happened, but not on here!), I'm not expecting to see my boat in Antibes before the late summer

How that and the 20m+ anchoring ban affects berth rental rates in Port Vauban next season I dont know but as I said I think they'll start high and only drop if the take up is poor

 

[jointventureII]

Great thread, really interesting to read others' perspectives.

I've had most of the last 8 years cruising Italy (albeit as a job) so I'll throw a few thoughts out.

Liguria is ok although not that much to see. Portofino, 5 Terre etc can be done in a week. Portovenere a must I'd say. I've never been ashore but Caprera was stunning too. We winter in Genoa and, although I'd say 50% of the place is a total s**thole, the other 50% is very nice. You can get any parts, supplies or work you want doing too.
Moving down, Elba has been mentioned a lot and rightly so, very pleasant place indeed, loads of good anchorages whatever the wind direction. The mainland coastal towns and marinas here aren't all that much barring Santo Stefano.

Coastline around Rome - nothing to see. Porto di Roma is ok but (someone's mentioned it) the entrance is a nightmare as is the fuel berth. A couple of seasons ago, a 34m Heesen towing a chaseboat actually grounded and the chaseboat ended in the rocks, about 2am during an easterly blow, it couldn't make the turn before ending up on the beach.
I did 3 months in that marina. First night (mid December) I was going for a walk just before dark when I heard what sounded like gunshots. The guard in the little office at the port entrance told me it was indeed gunshots and I should avoid going out after dark in these parts...! It's about 40 mins to the centre of Rome but a pick up point we use a lot as the Fiumicino airport is 10 mins drive.

Bay of Naples itself is nothing special, the peninsula however is fantastic although don't even try going anywhere in a car. Capri is permanently packed, Ischia is much more sedate. Pontine Islands are one of my favourites (loads of room to anchor, can always find shelter, guests always happy there).

Aeolian islands - if you get good weather then they're lovely (Stromboli, Panarea) but Lipari was uninspiring if I'm honest. Be careful anchoring, it's generally 30m deep minimum and volcanic.

Sicily - I love the north coast + Egadi islands + Messina part (San Vito, Cefalu, Milazzo, Taormina, Siracusa), must visit. Only really served by Catania Airport.

Calabrian coast has golden beaches and very clear water, Tropea is the standout although Vibo Valentia is a useful stopover. Airport coverage is poor around here though, Lamezia Terme the nearest.

Sardinia....amazing place. Maddalena islands probably the most beautiful but consequently also by far the most rammed. Cala Gavetta, on La Maddalena island itself, is a marina we use a lot. Avoid needing to refuel there, you'll be waiting in an Italian queue for a while.

The NW area (Stintino, Asinara, Alghero) is full of fantastic anchorages and Alghero has good nightlife.

Southern Sardinia is, in my opinion, a great place to take guests that aren't into the Costa Smeralda bling & glam. It's quiet, plenty on offer (Villasimius, Cagliari, Isola San Pietro and the multitude of beaches between), good airport at Cagliari. We go there a fair bit when needing to hop over to Tunisia.

I've never been further up the E than Bari so I can't comment about that stretch of coast.

 

[DavidJ]

Great thread, agree and takes me back. You mention Alghero, jointventurell.
As an aside we had a whole season in Alghero and was shown around by pontoon owner Frederico of SerMar (some may know him). We commented on the large open spaces in a very compact city. He said “Yes, the British put them there for us during WW2”
Oh dear, apparently Alghero was a base for the Italian fleet.
Not sure I’d recommend a long stay there, huge swells in the harbour.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not sure I’d recommend a long stay there, huge swells in the harbour.

I was going to ask whether the NW of Sardinia is a good place to keep your boat given that it is very open to the Mistral wind and the boisterous sea conditions that usually causes

 

[Clancy Moped]

In Alghero we always used Aquatica Alghero Marina Sardinia its a bit more tucked up of to the side, they did very keen deals for cash.

 

[DavidJ]

Yes, much better if you could go further into the harbour and less of a walk into town.
The pontoons seemed to be individually owned (or rented I guess) I’ll make a link to Ser-Mar anyway for interest. Frederico still sends me a Christmas card every year for over a decade.
Home

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Pontine Islands are one of my favourites (loads of room to anchor, can always find shelter, guests always happy there).

Excellent post. Thanks for the info. Apart from anchorages, are there any marinas in the Pontines which allow you to tie up and explore the islands on foot?

 

[jointventureII]

Excellent post. Thanks for the info. Apart from anchorages, are there any marinas in the Pontines which allow you to tie up and explore the islands on foot?

DavidJ you make a good point about Alghero, when the mistral is on, the swell is huge with very short wavelength. The roughest Med trip I've ever done was Mahon to Alghero. I'd not leave a boat in there for winter.

As for the Pontine islands, the little marina in Ponza can take up to about 40ft shallow draughted vessels (<1.5m), Ventotene can actually take bigger but there really are minimal berths and it's more swell prone. The problem in Ponza is the whole area around the port is reserved as a ferry turning area so no anchoring close in.

 

[Hooligan]

Excellent post. Thanks for the info. Apart from anchorages, are there any marinas in the Pontines which allow you to tie up and explore the islands on foot?

Not really although you do have floating pontoons in POnza in the port area which i would hesitate to use on your size boat. You can go up against the ferry pier after 5 pm. But the anchorages are really good and sheltered and easy to take the tender into town. Ventotene has some but minimal. Basically you need to view the area as anchorages