Italy

[Chris H]

Hopefully we will get a good season in sof this year, our berth lease is up at the end of the year and we are thinking of moving on, may try over West sof for a season, not a fan of Spain so other option is try Italy, few questions, are the bays- beaches @ anchor moorings any good, it’s been great in France as my wife is French and it really helps, how would it be in Italy not speaking the language, the idea is to slowly move around the coast of Italy and eventually get to Greece.

 

[MapisM]

Chris, I'm afraid it's hard to give a simple answer to your apparently simple question.
Aside from the bit about language, for which I think it's fair to say that EN is widely spoken, at least at basic level, in any Italian touristic places.
And all the places along the sea can be called touristic, even if some a bit more than others.
So, I don't think you would experience major difficulties anywhere, with respect to language.

It's rather the bit about bays/beaches/anchorages/moorings that is much harder to address, because that varies radically depending on where you are, along 9 thousands or so Kms of coastline.
Besides, even if you are not mentioning it, I guess that also the travel convenience could be relevant for you, and there are many stunning places around Italy, including Sardinia where I am based, that you might rule out for that reason alone.

So, listing the pros and cons of all the Italian coasts from Ventimiglia (border with SoF) to Trieste (border with Slovenia), and also all the islands in between, would be a monumental task.
But since you are talking of moving on from SoF, your first port of call would obviously be the Ligurian coast.
Which TBH is not one of my favourite, from a boating viewpoint.
I mean, it's OK, and some Ligurian towns are nice and lively, with an international airport in Genoa, which could be a consideration.
There are also some really beautiful spots, like Portofino, Cinque Terre and Porto Venere - all with good marinas nearby.
But from a boater perspective, Liguria isn't among the best places that Italy has to offer.

Mind, strictly from a boating perspective, I wouldn't call great the SoF either.
Nothing wrong with it, and I know it's very well connected with plenty of flights, but even in the best spots, it still isn't among the top Med boating grounds, imho. It's no coincidence that SoF boaters typically cross to Corsica (which is instead stunning), whenever they have enough time available.

Back to the point, imho the closer really lovely boating grounds that you will find coming from SoF are along the Tuscan coast, with Elba and the Tuscan Archipelago. There's also plenty of very good marinas to choose from, and Pisa airport is reasonably close.
Then again, Italy has even better places to offer.
Trouble is, generally speaking, the nicer boating grounds are much further South, and rarely easy to reach.
To name but a few, the Pontine Islands, the Campanian Archipelago with the Sorrento Peninsula, the Aeolian Islands, Sardinia, Sicily...

Bottom line, I don't want to dismiss Greece, which is fantastic from a boating perspective.
But if you wish to see all what is worth seeing in Italy before eventually heading towards Greece, you'd better plan your route in terms of years, and I don't think 2 or 3 would be enough...!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We have the same conundrum as our berth lease in Antibes is up at the end of this year

We've cruised the Ligurian coast between San Remo and Genoa a couple of times. There are some nice marinas and interesting towns but the coastline is uninteresting. There are no sheltered anchorages like Villefranche or Iles Lerins so if you want to drop the hook for lunch or overnight you are very dependent on wind strength and direction. Beyond Genoa the coastline is more interesting with famous ports like Portofino and Portovenere (well worth a visit) and the Cinque Terre villages until you get to La Spezia (good marina and good place to leave a boat for a few weeks/months). Further south the coastline becomes flat and boring until you get to the island of Elba (again very well worth a visit). Beyond Elba I'm afraid I havent cruised so I can't tell you any more

Dont forget that another route south is via Corsica and Sardinia both of which are very interesting islands

 

[Chris H]

Great info, thanks, we will definitely be going to Corsica and Sardinia, Greece, or Greek islands will be a few years away, there’s lots to see on the way, im also hoping it will be a lot cheaper !

 

[MapisM]

Beyond Elba I'm afraid I havent cruised so I can't tell you any more

Well, you actually did M, at least a bit.
In fact, we've been together in Giglio (of Concordia fame), Giannutri and Argentario Peninsula - which are all nice and with a good choice of marinas.
But I see where you come from, because this area is often thought as grouped together with Elba, even if it's actually a fair bit further south (30Nm or so, IIRC), closer to Rome.
After that area, my Roman friends will forgive me for saying that the mainland coast is a bit dull till well south of Rome, where Cape Circeo is a nice base for the Pontine Islands.
Though of course, in between there's a lot to be said about Rome itself, because on top of being a breathtaking town, there's plenty of marinas and boatyards in Fiumicino area, with the intercontinental airport just round the corner.
The coast as such is nothing special though, and with no sheltered anchorages.

 

[MapisM]

im also hoping it will be a lot cheaper !

Depending on the specific place, you'd better not hold your breath.
Some marinas along mainland Italy are very expensive, like for instance Portofino in Liguria, Porto Cervo in Costa Smeralda, and also a few others further South. But their costs are mostly driven by their reputation as "must-be" places, more than anything else.
As a rule of thumb, the further you go south, the larger your choice of reasonably priced berths.
Unless being in a place with a good chance to spot some celebrities is your thing, that is!

 

[Chris H]

Depending on the specific place, you'd better not hold your breath.
Some marinas along mainland Italy are very expensive, like for instance Portofino in Liguria, Porto Cervo in Costa Smeralda, and also a few others further South. But their costs are mostly driven by their reputation as "must-be" places, more than anything else.
As a rule of thumb, the further you go south, the larger your choice of reasonably priced berths.
Unless being in a place with a good chance to spot some celebrities is your thing, that is!

What is the availability of marinas like for a 3/4 month stay, we’ve nothing to compare cost wise, I bought the berth with boat but we pay over £10k a year just on service charge.

 

[Portofino]

It’s easy for a CdA boater to shoot past Liguria on a boat we have done it loadsa times in my Sunseeker days , heading for Portofino etc .
How ever since we started to commute along the coast from Savona to get to our berth in La Napoule ( expires 2029 ) we started to pull off the motorway for reccy s + lunch stops .The motorway runs close and high up to the coast , so while wifey hammers the Bentley I peered out of the window studying the coast line watching the sea , watching the boat s , watching what they were doing .
Also noticed a greater density of high end cars on the Italian side of Autostrada del Fiori, this side of Monaco, compared to France .let’s face Cannes area, Cap Ferrat Mougins areas etc ain,t exactly slums.

So somethings up ?

The lunch trips ( mostly in marina restaurants) morphed into visits to marina offices .We liked what we saw and felt .
A far warmer , friendly welcoming attitude to us .If you are immersed in French CdA culture you only realise this difference a pleasant difference only if you start to spend time out of it , like we did .
Sure some French are nice , but a significant majority , enough of them are not as nice as they could be .A moot point I appreciate amongst the Franco philes .CdA is very money oriented and expensive compared to Liguaria .
Everything is cheaper , Pizas start @ €4 and rarely exceed double didgets , Large beers €4-5 compared to €7 + in the CdA .Coffees / Lattes € 1 - 2 to give you an idea . Dinning out is a whole better experience, nicer food and more friendly staff .
I know the on shore living in the general boat running scheme is small , but it’s worth pointing out and having been skinned alive many times in the CdA it’s feels nice like the old days “ living in Italy “ . Normal Italy .

Boating
There is small N /S bit of coastline , either side of Loano where it’s interesting enough to always find a nice safe anchorage to go out for frolicking about .It’s gets interesting from Imperia to Noli .
Theres an island Galinara near Alassio .Alassio think St Trop without the riff raff day trippers .Usual suspect high end shops for the lady’s .Imperia too is a nice shopping place .
The marina prices are generally a lot lower than the CdA . Very few Brits , mostly Swiss , Austrians , a few Germans and obviously Italians from Turin / Milan .A lot of those long week end it .
You can get discount if you rent more than one year .
I paid €14000 for 2 years in Loano ,no service charge but you buy leccy ( 2_300 € tops / year ) thats it .
We also pay an additional €100 a year for a package which includes, bottled water delivery , oil removal+ disposal, wifi ,battery removal, free e bike hire + access to the marina pool and 3 beaches , one of which is a dog friendly beach .
The €17000 pa rent from our La Nap berth used as a cash cow , more than covers the €7 k pa Loano costs .
The underground car park is a car nuts paradise I have never seen such a concentration of high end cars in a marina car park .
Gardian fees in the winter in monthly wash are €100 month .Lift out and annual is exactly the same done professionally with the Amoco guys on site ( SY yard with a little crane for marina boats ) as I was paying to DIY it in the CdA .So 1/2 professional CdA price .Quoted €2500 inc tax 2 coats for a 15 M boat inc some sterngear protection as well .Anodes @ cost .

Covids buggered up any long range trips last year . Corsica is more less the same distance as CdA , but we wanted to go to the bay of La Spezia , there are some nice places there and then to Pisa , then to Elba .Been before btw .So a a long range base Italy seems fine . Although we could go , we figured it safer to stay local to minimise mixing . We are about an hr and 1/2 from Monaco by sea .
Airports Genoa is under an hr by car and really tiny compared to NICE , car hires cheaper too .

So whats it like to boat
Theres a huge drop in boat density in the sea compared to the CdA very noticeable. We welcome that it takes a bit of getting used to particularly out side school hols .Hence hardly any wake(s) .Some days the bay of Cannes when zero wind would be waked up by the sheer volume of traffic , thats something we do not miss . The land view is less built up and developed than the CdA , less high rise etc .
The weather is less windy = flatter seas , as I said if you set up a seakeeper dealership here you would go bust as there no market .There is in the CdA not disputing that .The lower boat density means more wild life , Dolphins , barracuda and even whales .
There are whale watching trips daily from the marina .
A few pics

Gallinara in the distance it’s 170 degrees on the compass to give you an idea of the N/ S orientation , counterintuitive I know as you think the coast runs E/ W .



Always shelter on one side of the island .


Alassio marina in the middle and behind the head land in the back ground is Imperia .Note the shore side building density, or lack of it .Think Antibes / Nice etc .



We are in another bay E of the marina the other side is Varigotti, here the houses have doors that open on the beach - below .


It ain’t busy and it’s flat . You can tender it ashore as well .

 

[Hooligan]

Hopefully we will get a good season in sof this year, our berth lease is up at the end of the year and we are thinking of moving on, may try over West sof for a season, not a fan of Spain so other option is try Italy, few questions, are the bays- beaches @ anchor moorings any good, it’s been great in France as my wife is French and it really helps, how would it be in Italy not speaking the language, the idea is to slowly move around the coast of Italy and eventually get to Greece.

Chris, we moved from Menorca to Italy. Other than by land i do not know SoF but perhaps I can add my experience to what MapisM has said Especially as we just took the new boat down from its landing point in Genoa to where we are based in Salerno. I agree with MapisM in that the Ligurian coast has some lovely places but would not be my choice. I actually think it is better done on land. Lovely walks and hotels etc etc. We are in Salerno area and the advantages of this are IMHO that you have two playgrounds. First is up through the Pontines to Elba which is a stunning stretch of adventure. the only island i would avoid is Capri but you have the Amalfi coast, the bay of Naples, Ischia, Ponza, and Elba to name a few. You can take in Rome as well. the difference here is that this is island rather than beach boating. The water is clean and fresh but not the crystal Caribbean type water I think you refer to. The second choice is to go South. Here you have Tropea - where the water is totally Caribbean and then the Aeolians where the water is deep and dark blue reflecting the volcanic nature of the islands. Down on the West side of Sicily you have non volcanic formations and the Egadi islands have all the crystal turquoise water you can dream about. You also have the best food in the world, it is cheap, the people are very open and nice, and the variety of boating is enormous. Personally I could not recommend it more highly. We are at Marina D’Arechi which is a new marina and fairly lifeless. But we tend to go, get on the boat and cruise. So if you are looking for marina life it is not for you. For me, hands down I would look south rather than north Italy. Flight to Naples and then a 50 minute drive. Happy to send you photos or numbers etc but if you want true variety there is nowhere better to go. I also suspect that marina fees are one third of SoF

 

[Hooligan]

Well, you actually did M, at least a bit.
In fact, we've been together in Giglio (of Concordia fame), Giannutri and Argentario Peninsula - which are all nice and with a good choice of marinas.
But I see where you come from, because this area is often thought as grouped together with Elba, even if it's actually a fair bit further south (30Nm or so, IIRC), closer to Rome.
After that area, my Roman friends will forgive me for saying that the mainland coast is a bit dull till well south of Rome, where Cape Circeo is a nice base for the Pontine Islands.
Though of course, in between there's a lot to be said about Rome itself, because on top of being a breathtaking town, there's plenty of marinas and boatyards in Fiumicino area, with the intercontinental airport just round the corner.
The coast as such is nothing special though, and with no sheltered anchorages.

Agree. I wouldn’t berth long term in Rome personally. You are sort of betwixt and between. We ended up staying for 5 days due to weather in Marina di Roma which was fun and we had a blast meeting people but not somewhere I would berth up. BTW you mentioned £10,000 in service fees alone. Not sure exactly what boat you have but to give you an idea I have a 65 ft and pay €13k pa all in. Basically you want access to Elba and the Pontines and IMHO Sicily and all around there. We circumnavigated Sicily last year and although I wouldn’t do the south coast of Sicily again, it was just an amazing place to cruise. I should also add that it seems to me that the south is where the northern Italians go to play/sail ie follow the locals

 

[Chris H]

Thanks chaps, time to get the map out !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Chris, we moved from Menorca to Italy. Other than by land i do not know SoF but perhaps I can add my experience to what MapisM has said Especially as we just took the new boat down from its landing point in Genoa to where we are based in Salerno. I agree with MapisM in that the Ligurian coast has some lovely places but would not be my choice. I actually think it is better done on land. Lovely walks and hotels etc etc. We are in Salerno area and the advantages of this are IMHO that you have two playgrounds. First is up through the Pontines to Elba which is a stunning stretch of adventure. the only island i would avoid is Capri but you have the Amalfi coast, the bay of Naples, Ischia, Ponza, and Elba to name a few. You can take in Rome as well. the difference here is that this is island rather than beach boating. The water is clean and fresh but not the crystal Caribbean type water I think you refer to. The second choice is to go South. Here you have Tropea - where the water is totally Caribbean and then the Aeolians where the water is deep and dark blue reflecting the volcanic nature of the islands. Down on the West side of Sicily you have non volcanic formations and the Egadi islands have all the crystal turquoise water you can dream about. You also have the best food in the world, it is cheap, the people are very open and nice, and the variety of boating is enormous. Personally I could not recommend it more highly. We are at Marina D’Arechi which is a new marina and fairly lifeless. But we tend to go, get on the boat and cruise. So if you are looking for marina life it is not for you. For me, hands down I would look south rather than north Italy. Flight to Naples and then a 50 minute drive. Happy to send you photos or numbers etc but if you want true variety there is nowhere better to go. I also suspect that marina fees are one third of SoF

Interesting. As I said above, I have the same problem as Chris. I'm looking around for somewhere else to park after our Antibes lease runs out. What would be the annual mooring cost for a 20m boat in Marina D'Arechi? Are guardiennage and maintenance services easily available?

I for one would love to see some photos on here!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, you actually did M, at least a bit.
In fact, we've been together in Giglio (of Concordia fame), Giannutri and Argentario Peninsula - which are all nice and with a good choice of marinas.
But I see where you come from, because this area is often thought as grouped together with Elba, even if it's actually a fair bit further south (30Nm or so, IIRC), closer to Rome.
After that area, my Roman friends will forgive me for saying that the mainland coast is a bit dull till well south of Rome, where Cape Circeo is a nice base for the Pontine Islands.
Though of course, in between there's a lot to be said about Rome itself, because on top of being a breathtaking town, there's plenty of marinas and boatyards in Fiumicino area, with the intercontinental airport just round the corner.
The coast as such is nothing special though, and with no sheltered anchorages.

Of course you are correct P. How could I forget nearly hitting the same rock as the esteemed Captain Schettino? ?

And Santo Stefano was indeed a very pleasant port although quite far from an international airport if I recall

 

[Hurricane]

What would be the annual mooring cost for a 20m boat in Marina D'Arechi? Are guardiennage and maintenance services easily available?

I once showed some interest in buying a berth at Marina D'Arechi and they haven't left me alone since!!
That said, I had a good feeling about the staff in Marina D'Arechi - a very pleasant lot.

Lots of comments on this thread about the south being better than the north.
What about taking in MapisM's place (CF in Sardinia) for a season or two.
He isn't based there by accident.
Well, I think he might have been to start with.
IIRC, he was en-route to the west and got stuck because he liked it so much.

We used it as a refuel stop on our way back from Malta.
Liked it so much that we promised ourselves to go back - so we did in 2015 for most of the summer.
We had planned to go back again last summer but hey ho.
But I am thinking that if we get back to normal, maybe we could enjoy a late season trip for a couple of months to CF again.

And on the subject of costs, CF isn't expensive.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I once showed some interest in buying a berth at Marina D'Arechi and they haven't left me alone since!!
That said, I had a good feeling about the staff in Marina D'Arechi - a very pleasant lot.

Lots of comments on this thread about the south being better than the north.
What about taking in MapisM's place (CF in Sardinia) for a season or two.
He isn't based there by accident.
Well, I think he might have been to start with.
IIRC, he was en-route to the west and got stuck because he liked it so much.

We used it as a refuel stop on our way back from Malta.
Liked it so much that we promised ourselves to go back - so we did in 2015 for most of the summer.
We had planned to go back again last summer but hey ho.
But I am thinking that if we get back to normal, maybe we could enjoy a late season trip for a couple of months to CF again.

And on the subject of costs, CF isn't expensive.

I moored my boat there for the best part of 2 seasons and it is a lovely place with a lovely local cruising area but the big problem is getting there. Once you land at Cagliari airport it is 1 - 1.5hr taxi/rental car drive to the ferry port at Portovesme, upto 1 hr wait for a ferry if you are unlucky, followed by a 0.5hr ferry ride. We used to reckon on a 10-11hr trip door to door trip from our home in Bucks to our boat in CF and thats assuming no flight delays. So IMHO Carloforte is not really a convenient place to leave a boat if your boating consists of long weekends and limited holidays. Of course if you can spend several weeks onboard your boat at a time, its much less of an issue

And you have to like tuna

 

[Clancy Moped]

I moored my boat there for the best part of 2 seasons and it is a lovely place with a lovely local cruising area but the big problem is getting there. Once you land at Cagliari airport it is 1 - 1.5hr taxi/rental car drive to the ferry port at Portovesme, upto 1 hr wait for a ferry if you are unlucky, followed by a 0.5hr ferry ride. We used to reckon on a 10-11hr trip door to door trip from our home in Bucks to our boat in CF and thats assuming no flight delays. So IMHO Carloforte is not really a convenient place to leave a boat if your boating consists of long weekends and limited holidays. Of course if you can spend several weeks onboard your boat at a time, its much less of an issue

And you have to like tuna

To this day I still think the Tagliata on the front in Carloforte is the best I've ever had.....

 

[Hurricane]

To this day I still think the Tagliata on the front in Carloforte is the best I've ever had.....

Not to mention the local Black Spaghetti or fresh Tuna Crudo

 

[Clancy Moped]

The public of Carloforte take their evening promenade very seriously.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

To this day I still think the Tagliata on the front in Carloforte is the best I've ever had.....

No question the food in Carloforte is first class. Just occasionally we Brits wanted burger and chips. I'm now hiding behind the sofa awaiting an incoming volley of abuse from Italy?

 

[petem]

No question the food in Carloforte is first class. Just occasionally we Brits wanted burger and chips. I'm now hiding behind the sofa awaiting an incoming volley of abuse from Italy?

Did you get the burger and chips?