Italy - Where did they go ?

[GeorgeTina]

I have my yacht in the north Adriatic. Some 20% of the boats in the marina have vanished. Reports on the web suggest 20000 to 30000 boats have fled from Italy during 2012 due to the tax changes and the action of the VAT police. When cruising Croatia and Slovenia for the past eight years the marinas all seemed full or nearly so. I have been on a waiting list for a Croatian marina for the past 3 years. So where did all those boats that left Italy go !!. Have they been hidden on land somewhere or moved to Albania ?. You can't just relocate 20000 to 30000 boats without some impact somewhere. They certainly have not all been sold.
Any suggestions ?.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Well they weren't in Istria or Kvarner in August last year .... it was empty.

 

[Zen Zero]

Out the water on sticks.

 

[BrianH]

I have my yacht in the north Adriatic. Some 20% of the boats in the marina have vanished. Reports on the web suggest 20000 to 30000 boats have fled from Italy during 2012 due to the tax changes and the action of the VAT police. When cruising Croatia and Slovenia for the past eight years the marinas all seemed full or nearly so. I have been on a waiting list for a Croatian marina for the past 3 years. So where did all those boats that left Italy go !!. Have they been hidden on land somewhere or moved to Albania ?. You can't just relocate 20000 to 30000 boats without some impact somewhere. They certainly have not all been sold.
Any suggestions ?.

I too have my yacht in NE Itlay, in a 2000+ berth complex of three marinas and have been there over 30 years. There has been a small attrition of boats but nothing like what what you say have left -I would be interested in any link you could cite.

I think any reduction in my marina has been more due to the general economic situation rather than the 2010 Monti tax on Italian-registered leisure craft. We had four extra Guardia di Finanza officers allocated to the complex to control the tax situation but other than checking out a few of the big, new motor-yachts, nothing much changed. Certainly no noticeable exodus and no official checked on me or any of the many owners - Italian, German, Austrian - with whom I am in regular contact.

The boat ownership composition of the three marinas is mainly split into three groups: Italian, about 50%; German and Austrian about 40% spread equally; and a sprinkling of others ... Swiss, Nordic and an increasing eastern European contingent. So as the new tax is levied on only Italian boats of 10m and above, it hasn't been particularly visible.

The numbers of newish yachts of all nationalities did noticeable reduce about ten years ago when the EU passed legislation that all members had to collect VAT from any EU-registered yachts berthed in their territorial waters and Italy was especially pressured by Brussels to follow that up. A major exodus to Slovenia and Croatia occurred, which caused the marina waiting lists there to swell. Then Slovenia acceded and announced immediate VAT controls, which caused further pressure on Croatian marina vacancies.

Personally, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to exchange an Italian Adriatic marina for a Croatian one - but that's just me.

 

[Marsupial]

I too have my yacht in NE Itlay, in a 2000+ berth complex of three marinas and have been there over 30 years. There has been a small attrition of boats but nothing like what what you say have left -I would be interested in any link you could cite.

I think any reduction in my marina has been more due to the general economic situation rather than the 2010 Monti tax on Italian-registered leisure craft. We had four extra Guardia di Finanza officers allocated to the complex to control the tax situation but other than checking out a few of the big, new motor-yachts, nothing much changed. Certainly no noticeable exodus and no official checked on me or any of the many owners - Italian, German, Austrian - with whom I am in regular contact.

The boat ownership composition of the three marinas is mainly split into three groups: Italian, about 50%; German and Austrian about 40% spread equally; and a sprinkling of others ... Swiss, Nordic and an increasing eastern European contingent. So as the new tax is levied on only Italian boats of 10m and above, it hasn't been particularly visible.

The numbers of newish yachts of all nationalities did noticeable reduce about ten years ago when the EU passed legislation that all members had to collect VAT from any EU-registered yachts berthed in their territorial waters and Italy was especially pressured by Brussels to follow that up. A major exodus to Slovenia and Croatia occurred, which caused the marina waiting lists there to swell. Then Slovenia acceded and announced immediate VAT controls, which caused further pressure on Croatian marina vacancies.

Personally, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to exchange an Italian Adriatic marina for a Croatian one - but that's just me.

Its a small sample size I know but of the four Italian owners I know one keeps his boat in Turkey to avoid taxes the other three did keep their boats in Italy but have sold up because of the taxes, their boats left Italy - so the attrition rate would seem to be quite high. When Greece announced a boat tax and the port police went on strike thousands of boats left Greece and made their way to Italy, one day not in my lifetime, politicians will understand that boats move until then we get all this silliness.

 

[BrianH]

Its a small sample size I know but of the four Italian owners I know one keeps his boat in Turkey to avoid taxes the other three did keep their boats in Italy but have sold up because of the taxes, their boats left Italy - so the attrition rate would seem to be quite high. When Greece announced a boat tax and the port police went on strike thousands of boats left Greece and made their way to Italy, one day not in my lifetime, politicians will understand that boats move until then we get all this silliness.

I accept my observations may be too limited, my local informants too subjective and my marina not typical.

One thing I have to agree, the local marina tradespeople are having a hard time generally, with many boatowners selling up. Except the boat market is stagnant and the hard standing area is full of 'In Vendita`signs. But, as everyone there says, it is all a product of the general Italian economic malaise.

Also, more than one mobo owner has told me that they didn't cruise to Croatia in 2012 because of the fuel costs, which has made such craft extra expensive on top of the business slowdown, many of them being owners of typically small family businesses.

I am sure the mega-yacht class, especially on the west coast where most of them are, are being zeroed in on - see http://www.economist.com/node/21560920

 

[GeorgeTina]

I too have my yacht in NE Itlay, in a 2000+ berth complex of three marinas and have been there over 30 years. There has been a small attrition of boats but nothing like what what you say have left -I would be interested in any link you could cite.

Lots of information via google search on Italy yacht tax 2013. Most of the sites show loss of income as well as boats leaving.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Sold my last boat to an Italian who had it shipped by road on a low-loader ... skipped Italy and had it taken straight to Slovenia ... said there were too many restrictions and too much paperwork to keep it in Italy ... at least |I think that's what he said!

 

[jaba]

Out the water on sticks.

I'd second that.

IMHO it's not so much the Monti tax, but the recession which is biting hard. It's very very difficult to sell boats, expensive to move them abroad (and where to. I wonder...), and somehow less costly to let them on the dry.
BTW my marina after a stall last year has (marginally) hiked the prices... but they have built a swimming pool

 

[BrianH]

Sold my last boat to an Italian who had it shipped by road on a low-loader ... skipped Italy and had it taken straight to Slovenia ... said there were too many restrictions and too much paperwork to keep it in Italy ... at least |I think that's what he said!

What he may have really said was that delivering by low-loader to Italy is well-nigh impossible - or impossibly expensive. Every local authority passed through needs to give permission and to collate all the documents in time is a bureaucratic nightmare as some take for ever to grant it. A load over 3m wide also needs police permission and mobile accompaniment before the load and after - and every little piece of paper and official attendance must be paid for - heavily.

When I delivered my boat from Holland to northern Italy every transport company said "No way, but we'll deliver to Koper in Slovenia and you can sail it from there" - that's what most people do and perhaps also your buyer ...?

A Dutch one-man company did accept the load eventually, but he had 'a cunning plan'.

 

[haydude]

I too have my yacht in NE Itlay, in a 2000+ berth complex of three marinas and have been there over 30 years. There has been a small attrition of boats but nothing like what what you say have left -I would be interested in any link you could cite.

I think any reduction in my marina has been more due to the general economic situation rather than the 2010 Monti tax on Italian-registered leisure craft. We had four extra Guardia di Finanza officers allocated to the complex to control the tax situation but other than checking out a few of the big, new motor-yachts, nothing much changed. Certainly no noticeable exodus and no official checked on me or any of the many owners - Italian, German, Austrian - with whom I am in regular contact.

The boat ownership composition of the three marinas is mainly split into three groups: Italian, about 50%; German and Austrian about 40% spread equally; and a sprinkling of others ... Swiss, Nordic and an increasing eastern European contingent. So as the new tax is levied on only Italian boats of 10m and above, it hasn't been particularly visible.

The numbers of newish yachts of all nationalities did noticeable reduce about ten years ago when the EU passed legislation that all members had to collect VAT from any EU-registered yachts berthed in their territorial waters and Italy was especially pressured by Brussels to follow that up. A major exodus to Slovenia and Croatia occurred, which caused the marina waiting lists there to swell. Then Slovenia acceded and announced immediate VAT controls, which caused further pressure on Croatian marina vacancies.

Personally, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to exchange an Italian Adriatic marina for a Croatian one - but that's just me.

I was considering too to take my yacht to Italy. Being UK resident tax is not a concern. My concern is about looking after the boat whilst I am not there. How do you guys deal with it?

 

[GeorgeTina]

I was considering too to take my yacht to Italy. Being UK resident tax is not a concern. My concern is about looking after the boat whilst I am not there. How do you guys deal with it?

My yacht is in a secure marina, not easily accessed by the public. I have a german friend who is a live aboard at the marina and he keeps an eye on the yacht during the winter as do (I hope!!), the marina staff. The yacht is on the water year round and all has been OK for the last eight years. Marina is not cheap but all the marinas in Italy are a similar price.

 

[BrianH]

I was considering too to take my yacht to Italy. Being UK resident tax is not a concern. My concern is about looking after the boat whilst I am not there. How do you guys deal with it?

Whilst I am aboard and cruising most of the summer I leave my yacht unattended afloat for the rest of the year. Before I retired (in 2003) I was only aboard for one month in the year with perhaps two short visits as I live 700km distant. In over 33 years I have never had any loss or damage - other than a split foot pump from freezing. Winter temperatures can become very low and sometimes the marina freezes over.

The marina (Aprilia Marittima) is situated 5nm within the Laguna di Marano which means very protected. There are three marinas consisting of the old Darsena and two flanking newer constructions, Capo Nord and Punto Gabbiani. Security is excellent in all three with marinaros patrolling each pier hourly. They will adjust mooring lines and attend to any obvious problems.

The services are excellent with two small markets, two or three simple restaurants and every marine trade is represented. Prices are reasonable but most of us usually shop in the Supermarkets of Lignano, about 5km distant. There is even a Lidl !

Berths are stern-to (or bow-to) onto fixed piers. The tidal range (yes, there is one) is typically 1m but considerably more with spring tides, especially if accompanied by a strong sirocco.

In the older Darsena I pay €2'600 pa for a 10m berth - unlimited water and power included. Toilet facilities are adequate and kept scrupulously clean. The other two attached marinas all facilities are positively luxurious. Access to a very attractive swimming pool set in the indiginous pine trees is included, which all marinas also have.

The major negative factor is the distance from the sea proper and having to navigate the lagoon channels, then the shallow entrance at Lignano with its marked outer channel, which can be dangerous in strong southerly winds. The lagoon channels also become silted and need regular dredging, deeper draught vessels are at a disadvantage there.

Language could be another disadvantage without any Italian or German, but plenty of others get by with English, albeit with some good-natured misunderstandings.

And, above all, the local food, wine, Italian charm, warmth and friendliness are a bonus.

If you Google "marina aprilia marittima" you will get a wealth of information, included price lists, from all three marinas. PM me if you have any specific questions.