Croak
Well-Known Member
But I didn't have 9kg of propane on board. Was I a bit safer? How much more dangerous was it carrying 50L than 5L?
And the fact that no-one else does the same may account for a few lifeboat callouts.
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It was all going so smoothly....
- Thread starter CFarr
- Start date
But I didn't have 9kg of propane on board. Was I a bit safer? How much more dangerous was it carrying 50L than 5L?
And the fact that no-one else does the same may account for a few lifeboat callouts.
snooks
Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, a boat without an engine won't go sailing when there is no wind
and if it was becalmed in an area where shipping can be found then why shouldn't they use the VHF? They don't have to, but it's an option available to them if they feel it is the prudent thing to do.Most yachts have engines so the amount of becalmed engineless yachts this would effect would be few and far between unless there was a classic rally in the Solent
I'm not suggesting there is anything unseamanlike about sailing without an engine at all, I'd quite happily sail my dads engineless international 6 metre, I've raced on Falmouth working boats, and have sailed dingies for years before. All of which don't have engines. But if I found myself in becalmed in any of those and there was any shipping about I personally would put out a securite to make any vessels around aware that I cannot get out of their way.
That's my personal feeling on this, you may well have a different take on it, I don't think you'll get the coastguard saying either of our views are right or wrong.
Some people seem to want to check their VHF every time they go from Lymington to Yarmouth. I check mine when I plug it in at the start of the season, or two seasons ago when I last unplugged it. Who's right?
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Gas bottles on most boats are carried in lockers designed for the purpose. 50l of petrol on the average sailing boat, if carried, is carried in lockers that are not. Is your locker suitable?
If it is unseamanlike to embark on a trip without sufficient fuel for 2 types of engines to complete the trip, are all voyages that are longer than for which fuel can be carried all unseamanlike? Is sailing across an ocean just wrong? Or from say, Crete to Malta? Or would you suggest towing a fuel barge or two?
I would expect that the average lifeboatman would much rather tow 100 boats in becalmed and engineless because they didn't have the resources/confidence to wait for wind than to attend one smouldering remains and flotsam of a boat in a 50l petrol incident.
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Croak
Well-Known Member
Croak
Well-Known Member
I never said that it was.
Give me each of the above scenario with all the infomation, boat type, weather conditions, crew experience,etc, I will give you what I think would be a prudent risk assesment. I'm sure I don't need to explain that it requires different solutions for a different set of circumstances.
snooks
Well-Known Member
In my anchor locker, it drains over the side and is away from sources of ignition, not big enough for 50L though
shaunksb
Well-Known Member
The problem with trained turtles is they tend to follow the gulf stream so the OP would have ended up on the Isle of Mann and the Isle of Mann is shut on a Thursday.
You have to think the situation through...........
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AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
It has upper and lower vents that are always above the waterline then.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
Some of this stuff and on the other posts is laughable. If people can't go to sea without bothering the authorities with the kind of inane things I'm seeing on this thread they should stay at home and watch TV.
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lustyd
Well-Known Member
Didn't the OP carry a harness to allow the crew to swim and tow the yacht? For goodness sakes, nobody should set to sea without one!
Croak
Well-Known Member
pm sent
snooks
Well-Known Member
So how would you let friends or loved ones know you're safe and sound, when you're drifting around for a day and a half 45 miles from land, without "bothering the authorities" or would you let worried friends or loved ones do the bothering for you?
FWIW I've never "bothered" the coastguard for assistance, may be I've just been lucky, may be I should stop watching TV and go sailing?
NormanS
Well-Known Member
The OP (in the first post) didn't say anything about either Pan Pan or Securite. What he said was that he called Rosslare CG.
IMHO, unless he felt very insecure, he would have been better not to have called any Coastguard, because all they can do is to call out a lifeboat. What he could have done, quite legitimately, was to put out a "Securite", as often as he felt it was necessary, in order to warn any shipping in the vicinity, that he was becalmed. He was in a sailing yacht. There was no wind. Therefore he was becalmed. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
I have no idea of the competence of the people aboard at the time, but I would think that if the problem was due to the primary filter coming loose from its bulkhead mounting, it wouldn't be too difficult to spot. Sticky tape is wonderful stuff.
IMHO, unless he felt very insecure, he would have been better not to have called any Coastguard, because all they can do is to call out a lifeboat. What he could have done, quite legitimately, was to put out a "Securite", as often as he felt it was necessary, in order to warn any shipping in the vicinity, that he was becalmed. He was in a sailing yacht. There was no wind. Therefore he was becalmed. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
I have no idea of the competence of the people aboard at the time, but I would think that if the problem was due to the primary filter coming loose from its bulkhead mounting, it wouldn't be too difficult to spot. Sticky tape is wonderful stuff.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Don't you have a TV onboard?!
If I were off on a trip like that then there would be someone "at home" I would contact as we left and when we got in.
They would know what time frame we have set to complete the journey and would (I have no doubt) contact the CG if we went significantly outside that time frame and had not heard from us.
I'm not one for submitting passage plans to CG - but I (like many of us) do make sure there is someone who knows our plans - and deviations from it.
Unfortunately - once out of mobile range the only surefire way to ensure our intentions are known is to contact the CG.
I am pretty sure that faced with similar circumstances to the OP I would've contacted the CG - just to let them know our plight - and because I know the shore contact would contact them if they'd not heard from us. Once that is done if the CG decide they are going to tow us in I'd probably not refuse - even if it did cost a wallet of Guinness.
Croak does have a (small) point about setting out with only one source of propulsion available - single engine mobo's often have a smaller engine incase the main one brakes down. Yachts normally have sail power (although it's amazing just how many locally call the CG when the engine "breaks" - even though there is some wind!) - but it certainly makes you think about the reliance on our engine should there be insufficient wind to ensure we can manoeuvre to safety.
I've set off on longer trips when there has been insufficient wind to fill the sails - the wind has usually set in afterwards though - only once have I motored the whole distance - although it would've been possible to change destination and make some progress had the engine packed up. Quite often I don't even take 5L of fuel for the outboard - just what is in it's tank - so it'd be no good as an alternative propulsion device.
I certainly don't want to have 50L of petrol (premixed with oil) onboard just incase - 50L would last us years of normal use - so we'd have to find another use for it - premixed would make that tricky.
I do have a spare can of diesel onboard - perhaps I should look at methods of connecting that post filter stage ... I could probably bodge something given time - but not in any sea - I'd just be sick!
The OP makes a good point about towing - when you do get a tow it may be done at a speed that puts a significant strain on your vessel. I know when I towed another in I used a bridle on the back of my boat - but they just tied off to a single cleat on their bow - their choice and I wasn't towing at a significant speed.
Text book towing methods always talk of making a bridle secured to a number of strong points - including the genoa winches - something I'd always thought of being wind/sea state dependant rather than an "over enthusiatic" mobo trying to get me up on the plane! Certainly something to think about should I find myself being towed!
Elemental
Well-Known Member
Elemental
Well-Known Member
Thinking about it though. Is a even a securite necessary? Offshore race boats must be frequently becalmed, and do not resort to engine (although I suppose they have the chance to do so in an 'imminent collision' scenario) and don't issue securites.
fireball
Well-Known Member
I suppose it all depends on your perception of the risk of sitting there becalmed ...
As you say a race boat could put it's engine on to get out of the way of a large vessel - the option is there ..
If you're in the middle of nowhere outside recognised shipping lanes then your chances of a close encounter are far reduced - however, if you're close by to one (and I don't know if the OP was or not) then it would be prudent to issue a securite...
As you say a race boat could put it's engine on to get out of the way of a large vessel - the option is there ..
If you're in the middle of nowhere outside recognised shipping lanes then your chances of a close encounter are far reduced - however, if you're close by to one (and I don't know if the OP was or not) then it would be prudent to issue a securite...
snooks
Well-Known Member
Racers usually have someone looking out and aren't suffering gear failure, and besides, they are usually gluttons for punishment
If there are only a couple of people on board and one is helping the other find the problem, they may not be conforming to colregs by keeping a proper look out as they should. Yes they should follow col regs, but as with motoring cones there are times when we choose not to, and 4 eyes on a problem are better than two.
It's the skippers call at the end of the day
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
So how would you let friends or loved ones know you're safe and sound, when you're drifting around for a day and a half 45 miles from land, without "bothering the authorities" or would you let worried friends or loved ones do the bothering for you?
FWIW I've never "bothered" the coastguard for assistance, may be I've just been lucky, may be I should stop watching TV and go sailing?
If someone's that bothered about contacting friends and family then buy a satellite phone but should they be worried about people drifting a Whole Day and a Half and being the unfathomable distance of 45 miles from land. It's all a bit pathetic really, this sort of thing is a gift to the regulators and bureaucrats. I would be very surprised if there were no wind at all, in fact it's virtually impossible because there will be at least some tidally generated wind.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Wait a minute. Before you start on the sat phones I think we should establish whether they had the right anchor. If not then surely a Rocnanana woud be a more prudent purchase...
(Yes, I'm being stupid now, but this thread is becoming a bit silly too)
