JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
If you know someone you could pay to do the check, they're be completely within the letter, the spirit and the intent of the law.Swinging mooring....
It is just a small leak....
- Thread starter Tandem
- Start date
Boathook
Well-Known Member
If you don't ask they can't say no!
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
There’s always that!
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Maybe a separate discussion you need to have, bearing in mind that you have admitted knowing the boat is taking water on. Owner is negligent unless sorted and not covered.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
"The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020
[...]
s.6(f)to travel for the purposes of work ... [...]... where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;"
You sell your boat to me for £1.
I will employ you to travel to her to pump her dry, fix the leak, check the mooring etc.
You send me an invoice for this work.
I refuse to pay it.
You seize the boat in lieu of payment.
[...]
s.6(f)to travel for the purposes of work ... [...]... where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;"
You sell your boat to me for £1.
I will employ you to travel to her to pump her dry, fix the leak, check the mooring etc.
You send me an invoice for this work.
I refuse to pay it.
You seize the boat in lieu of payment.
James_Calvert
Well-Known Member
Seriously, how big is the leak?
You need to pump out every 2 weeks.
How bad would it be after 4 or 6 weeks?
If you think the boat, or its internals, would be in danger or damaged by then... then you would be justified in sorting it out.
We are all hoping that through rigorously adhering to this lockdown for a week or two longer we will have broken the infection pattern and will just have to face the outcome for those already infected.
So if the boat should be OK for a few more weeks you wouldn't be justified in doing anything.
If it won't, perhaps you should be thinking about getting it lifted out.
Just my own thoughts, please don't think I'm lockdown shaming.
You need to pump out every 2 weeks.
How bad would it be after 4 or 6 weeks?
If you think the boat, or its internals, would be in danger or damaged by then... then you would be justified in sorting it out.
We are all hoping that through rigorously adhering to this lockdown for a week or two longer we will have broken the infection pattern and will just have to face the outcome for those already infected.
So if the boat should be OK for a few more weeks you wouldn't be justified in doing anything.
If it won't, perhaps you should be thinking about getting it lifted out.
Just my own thoughts, please don't think I'm lockdown shaming.
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
You are legitimately going to work on your boat.
Nowhere in this swiftly and badly drafted law is the word "work" defined.
I hope you can resolve your problem, but if this were me I would be taking an auto bilge pump switch with me. The modern solid state ones are pretty reliable in my experience.
Nowhere in this swiftly and badly drafted law is the word "work" defined.
I hope you can resolve your problem, but if this were me I would be taking an auto bilge pump switch with me. The modern solid state ones are pretty reliable in my experience.
Tamar
Well-Known Member
Automatic bilge pumps are only as good as the battery powering them. Is there solar panels charging said battery?
bdh198
Well-Known Member
From what you have described there is clearly a risk of serious damage to your boat. The regulations (the only legally enforceable restrictions on freedom of movement) allow you to leave the place you are living if you have a reasonable excuse. In the circumstances you describe, I think it would be difficult for anyone to argue that under the regulations the excuse of leaving your house to mitigate a risk of serious damage to your property would not be a reasonable excuse. It would certainly appear to be consistent with the non exhaustive list of exceptions set out under regulation 6(2).
In determining what is a “reasonable excuse” under the regulations it is important to have regard to the primary legislation the regulations are made under (The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984). Section 45C(1) says the regulations are for “...the purpose of preventing against, controlling or providing a public health response to the incident or spread of infection or contamination”. If the risk of you attending your boat because of a genuine concern for its safety creates no risk, or minimal risk, of putting you into contact with others (and thereby spreading the infection) then that it is another ground to support your excuse being considered reasonable under the regulations.
From a practical perspective , if your boat fills with water and sinks, not only will the consequences for you far out weigh the risk of you incurring a £30 fine under the regulations, but the work involved to remove it as a navigation hazard will create a much greater risk to the spread of infection.
Do not ask the police for their advice. Their action in recent weeks shows they do not understand the legal consequences of the legislation and that many officers are confused by the mixed messages coming from government ministers and “official guidance”. Ultimately, if you feel you need advice on the criminal law you should speak to a lawyer not a police officer.
In determining what is a “reasonable excuse” under the regulations it is important to have regard to the primary legislation the regulations are made under (The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984). Section 45C(1) says the regulations are for “...the purpose of preventing against, controlling or providing a public health response to the incident or spread of infection or contamination”. If the risk of you attending your boat because of a genuine concern for its safety creates no risk, or minimal risk, of putting you into contact with others (and thereby spreading the infection) then that it is another ground to support your excuse being considered reasonable under the regulations.
From a practical perspective , if your boat fills with water and sinks, not only will the consequences for you far out weigh the risk of you incurring a £30 fine under the regulations, but the work involved to remove it as a navigation hazard will create a much greater risk to the spread of infection.
Do not ask the police for their advice. Their action in recent weeks shows they do not understand the legal consequences of the legislation and that many officers are confused by the mixed messages coming from government ministers and “official guidance”. Ultimately, if you feel you need advice on the criminal law you should speak to a lawyer not a police officer.
colhel
Well-Known Member
Is there a Harbour Master or another authority you could ring for advice?
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Our lift in was, quite rightly, cancelled because of the lockdown. Had it gone ahead and the lockdown came in the following day, having just fitted a new stern gland and done significant work on the engine water inlet, there's no way I would have left my boat without checking she wasn't leaking after a day or two, even with an automatic bilge pump and solar panels. I'd be quite happy to argue the case in court.
As for asking, it's always easier to beg forgiveness than ask for permission. A snotty copper with no understanding of the situation can say no, and you're in a difficult position. If you get done, there's any number of arguments to be made over the meaning of essential
As for asking, it's always easier to beg forgiveness than ask for permission. A snotty copper with no understanding of the situation can say no, and you're in a difficult position. If you get done, there's any number of arguments to be made over the meaning of essential
bdh198
Well-Known Member
If a snotty officer with “no understanding of the law” tells you that you can’t go to your boat then that is exactly why you shouldn’t ask the police for permission. They can’t enforce a law that does not exist. They don’t have the power to give you permission to go in breach of the regulations. If they don’t understand the law and tell you not to go when you potentially have a legitimate “reasonable excuse” their opinion does not make your decision to go unlawful. However, it might mean they are less sympathetic if they later see you on your boat which wouldn’t help you in the short term.
The key word, as is so often the case in English law, is the word “reasonable”. The excuse for leaving your house is to check your boat. Whether that is “reasonable” in the circumstances is what makes it lawful or not. A genuine concern that you property is at risk of damage, the consequences if you don’t prevent that damage and the level of risk of spreading the virus by your actions are all important considerations in determining if the excuse is reasonable.
Old Harry
Well-Known Member
You forgot "as good as" float switch
Tamar
Well-Known Member
I think we took that as read?
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, the 'fine' for transgression of the Regulations is £30.....
Decisions, decisions!
Decisions, decisions!
Tandem
Active Member
Thank you for all the helpful comments.
Luckily, a local boatyard is still working and agreed to check the situation. The cost of a padlock confirmed the water in the bilge was nominal and not a problem.
They did find, however, that the forward sheave on the hinged bow roller had detached itself - 2 x M12 screws - that held it had worked loose, they had been glued in some time ago, but a detail obviously missed in my general maintenance review. There was already signs of wear on the nylon sleeve to the mooring strop....
So, she is now moved back to a pontoon berth in the club marina for repair when the 'rules' allow.
Luckily, a local boatyard is still working and agreed to check the situation. The cost of a padlock confirmed the water in the bilge was nominal and not a problem.
They did find, however, that the forward sheave on the hinged bow roller had detached itself - 2 x M12 screws - that held it had worked loose, they had been glued in some time ago, but a detail obviously missed in my general maintenance review. There was already signs of wear on the nylon sleeve to the mooring strop....
So, she is now moved back to a pontoon berth in the club marina for repair when the 'rules' allow.
