'Issues' with surveyor

[Paddingtonbear]

Hello all

Some of you may recall that a couple of months ago I or rather the boatyard where am having repairs done discovered serious problems with a pre purchase, condition and valuation survey that I had commissioned prior to the purchase of my current boat. Many of you, including some surveyors were extremely helpful and I took and applied the advice given in some cases using the exact wording offered. I have also been in contact with the CEO of his professional body who was surprisingly helpful and again I followed his advice to the letter. The last contact with the surveyor was a formal letter of complaint together with a request to pass it on to his Personal Indemnity Insurers and to inform me who they were so that a claim on his insurance could be commenced (he has rejected all infomal approaches). The letter laid out the terms of my complaints and used wording dictated by the CEO. I have also taken some telephone advice from Hannah Cash the well known Yachting solicitor who was absolutely brilliant and was free!. The surveyor has now replied within the time laid down but has not provided any information regarding his PI insurance, he just printed up and mailed his last rebuttle email. I have spoken with the CEO again and he just said it was a "shame" but they seem to have nothing more to add than tea and sympathy and don't seem to have any ability to force the issue. What do I do now? court or break his legs?
My biggest problem is that whilst it is difficult for me it is extremely aggravating to the boat yard who have been fantastic but now the half completed boat is getting their way. No wonder the surveyor claims on his web site that he has never had a PI claim!

 

[uxb]

You should ask for replies to be by PM in case the twit is reading this...

 

[sailorman]

What "Toothless" Org is this

Hello all

Some of you may recall that a couple of months ago I or rather the boatyard where am having repairs done discovered serious problems with a pre purchase, condition and valuation survey that I had commissioned prior to the purchase of my current boat. Many of you, including some surveyors were extremely helpful and I took and applied the advice given in some cases using the exact wording offered. I have also been in contact with the CEO of his professional body who was surprisingly helpful and again I followed his advice to the letter. The last contact with the surveyor was a formal letter of complaint together with a request to pass it on to his Personal Indemnity Insurers and to inform me who they were so that a claim on his insurance could be commenced (he has rejected all infomal approaches). The letter laid out the terms of my complaints and used wording dictated by the CEO. I have also taken some telephone advice from Hannah Cash the well known Yachting solicitor who was absolutely brilliant and was free!. The surveyor has now replied within the time laid down but has not provided any information regarding his PI insurance, he just printed up and mailed his last rebuttle email. I have spoken with the CEO again and he just said it was a "shame" but they seem to have nothing more to add than tea and sympathy and don't seem to have any ability to force the issue. What do I do now? court or break his legs?
My biggest problem is that whilst it is difficult for me it is extremely aggravating to the boat yard who have been fantastic but now the half completed boat is getting their way. No wonder the surveyor claims on his web site that he has never had a PI claim!

 

[pcatterall]

Can you start the process via the small claims court ( I have used this to good effect in the past).
The total amount involved may be too high for this process but can part of the issue be dealt with there and then perhaps there is a way to extend this?

My last case was when someone did not make payments ( promised on a regular basis). The total amount was too high for small claims but the missed payments were not.
A ruling was granted that payments had to be made good and future payments made on time.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

I have already registered with the moneyclaim court process so will see what happens. The maximum claim is £100,000 and my claim should be no more than a tenth of that. It will cost £210 in fees and I rather resent having to pay it.

I don't give a toss about him seeing this, everything I have said is substantiated and the cheeky idiot even criticised his own professional body for not knowing what they were talking about.

The organisation is IIMS but they have been great to me so far but I wonder what will happen when it all comes on top.

My concern is that he does not have PI insurance and that he will hide behind a Ltd Company when it comes to a successful claim. I suppose it will be breaking legs time then or possibly snatch his Harley - there I said he was a ******.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

He's probably trying to wear you down. If he realises that you are being serious then he will get his PI involved. He may even think that he has no choice but to deny responsibility so that he doesn't invalidate his insurance.

You've got to increase the pressure.

 

[Hugh Foulis]

Dont forget that your claim can include all the fees that you lay out and any other disbursements but also keep a note of your time spent dealing with the matter because that too is claimable.

I once asked for £90 per hour which was strongly objected to by the other side. I explained it was the standard rate for a non qualified fee earner in a solicitors practice and the judge was more than happy with that

HF

 

[Woodlouse]

He may even think that he has no choice but to deny responsibility so that he doesn't invalidate his insurance.

He probably doesn't just think it. You should never accept responsibility before the insurance company is involved. To do so will leave you wide open to them leaving you high and dry.

That said, he should have given his insurance details when asked.

 

[Richard10002]

I

The organisation is IIMS but they have been great to me so far but I wonder what will happen when it all comes on top.

My concern is that he does not have PI insurance and that he will hide behind a Ltd Company when it comes to a successful claim.

You say the IIMS have been great, but they do not seem to be able to do anything to force the issue, even though they seem to agree with your claim.

Have they suspended him from their organisation? Does he not have to show them his PPI cover to be a member? Do they not have an arbitration process that he has to take part in?

Sounds like using an IIMS surveyor is no protection whatsoever, and perhaps the world should know this.

I wonder whether the YDSA is any different/better?

Unfortunately, it is the injured party who has to pay up front to make a claim. If you get a CCJ against him for £10k, you will be able to send the bailiffs in, which will make life difficult for him, if nothing else.

The fact is, if you take no action, he can continue with his stance until the cows come home, ad do the same to others.

 

[lustyd]

I don't see why you need the insurance details. If you start action against him then he will either pass it to them or try to fight without them. Either way you would effectively be suing him rather than the insurers and if you're in the right (sorry didn't read the other thread) then you'll get your fees back.

 

[donm]

Surely the point is that your dispute is with the Surveyor and not the Insurance company. Whilst the Insurers may well get drawn in, the Surveyor is not required to involve them, any more than if you chose not to claim on a house or motoring policy for a loss. It is his choice, and the Insurers only stand as a "safety net" for him (and then you) should he fail to be able to meet your claim and invoke the policy, You can only proceed against the Surveyor with whom you have a dispute, as only you and he have a contractual relationship.
Decision time on whether it is worth litigation. And a word of warning - what makes you think that an Insurance company will be any easier meat?

 

[Woodlouse]

You say the IIMS have been great, but they do not seem to be able to do anything to force the issue, even though they seem to agree with your claim.

Have they suspended him from their organisation? Does he not have to show them his PPI cover to be a member? Do they not have an arbitration process that he has to take part in?

Sounds like using an IIMS surveyor is no protection whatsoever, and perhaps the world should know this.

I wonder whether the YDSA is any different/better?

It's an unregulated business surveying. Organisations like the YDSA and the IIMS are simply trying to make life easier for surveyors customers by letting them know that the surveyor they are using is competent and not just a chancer who feels like being a surveyor for the day. PPI will be a prerequisite for membership as will a certain level of vetting where the surveyor must prove he's up to their standard. Ultimately though the surveyor will be working for himself and the IIMS having given all the information they can wont be too keen to get involved.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

I don't see why you need the insurance details. If you start action against him then he will either pass it to them or try to fight without them. Either way you would effectively be suing him rather than the insurers and if you're in the right (sorry didn't read the other thread) then you'll get your fees back.

The point is is that when I posted a couple of months ago the advice seemed to be that I should follow a formal, tied and tested path which involved writing letters and emails and of course trying to find out what his professional body thought. What I did not want was for me to start down a path and be told that my claim had no value because I had missed a step out.

What I perhaps should have done is simultaneously started a money claim but I suppose that I hope that he would see sense or as has been said some form of intervention by IIMS would have taken place.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

I don't think for one minute that an Insurer will be easy but it is such a clear case on several levels that it would be hard to justify not paying. but yes insurance companies are almost the worst crooks of all.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

What I perhaps should have done is simultaneously started a money claim but I suppose that I hope that he would see sense or as has been said some form of intervention by IIMS would have taken place.

One thought......
Have you got legal cover on your own insurance (if you have insurance!)? If you have then it may be worth bringing that into play. It will concentrate his mind if he believes that you have an insurance company behind you.

 

[EugeneR]

Remotely related, however I've been reaching out to possible surveyors for our current purchase and asked some to send me a recent sample of their work. One just happened to be for a boat that I viewed two weeks before the date of the survey, and rejected because of a leak resulting in water damage to the woodwork and carpet. It was carefully "hidden" but we found it. None of this was mentioned in the survey. Of course, it could have been fixed but it feels more likely that this was overlooked.

 

[David2452]

Not sure about his PLI but a written complaint like you have made would be a "notifiable incident" on mine and if I didn't notify them then I suppose in extremis they could wash their hands.

 

[Richard10002]

It's an unregulated business surveying. Organisations like the YDSA and the IIMS are simply trying to make life easier for surveyors customers by letting them know that the surveyor they are using is competent and not just a chancer who feels like being a surveyor for the day. PPI will be a prerequisite for membership as will a certain level of vetting where the surveyor must prove he's up to their standard. Ultimately though the surveyor will be working for himself and the IIMS having given all the information they can wont be too keen to get involved.

"A Surveyor will:

never bias or modify his/her professional opinions for personal gain or in response to any form of pressure from whatever source
will obtain from a principal clear Terms or reference and confine his report to the agreed Terms
only undertake to carry out assignments for which he is properly qualified for a particular assignment
accept arbitration when all parties involved agree to this method of solving disputes
recognise that his/her first duty is to his/her clients instructions and endeavour to sustain an open relationship with a client whilst, at all times, observing professional integrity."


"When the Institute is informed of a Member's non-compliance with the Code of Conduct this will be investigated and the Member given the opportunity to offer a defence or appeal. Depending on the extent of non-compliance a Member may have his Membership suspended or permanently withdrawn. Minor failures may be dealt with by written warnings. However, repeated minor non-compliance can be considered grounds for suspension or expulsion from the Institute."

They make statements that suggest they will suspend or expel - yet you suggest that they won't.

The Code of Conduct gives a Member some credibility - this particular case tars all IIMS surveyors with a brush IMHO

 

[alahol2]

Apparently the maximum claim in the Small Claims process is rising to £10,000 from April. It could be worth waiting, as long as you don't pass any time limits, to start the process.

 

[Jim@sea]

It will cost £210 in fees and I rather resent having to pay it.

My concern is that he does not have PI insurance and that he will hide behind a Ltd Company when it comes to a successful claim.

With respect: You have got so far and you need to pay this £210 in fees. Rather than resenting having to pay it you should realise that this is a pittance if it brings you a successful conclusion. The moment you have paid the £210 you notify the Professional Body that you have started proceedings.
As regards a Ltd Co issue, presumably you have no knowledge of him being a Ltd Co, your payment to him was presumably to a private individual t/a (his trading name)