Isles of Scilly - Easter Weekend? (Any takers & advice?)

[taikohax]

I'm planning a trip from Dartmouth to the Isles of Scilly on 30th March in our Oceanis 45.
This is our first longer trip of this nature with us (myself and my partner) skippering and three friends.
Both of us are of reasonably low experience compared to some on here (both Dayskippers), reasonably risk averse but at the same time take a pragmatic view that if you prepare properly then there's a reasonable amount you can do at our experience level.

We're planning on heading off on the 30th, staying overnight at Falmouth and then getting up painfully early on the 31st so we can get to the Lizard for HW + 3 and then cut straight across to the Isles.
Broadly speaking (though it's still being worked out) we'll try and blast straight back to Dartmouth in one long stretch (depending on how much we use the engine) so we can get some more experience of night hours.

First Question was : Any advice in terms of weather/sea state conditions to keep an eye out for? (I ask because I was recently given the advice that sticking our nose out past Start Bay in an Easterly breeze is "always going to be bloody uncomfortable" - something i'd not considered at the time) and so i'd rather pick the brains of more experienced heads.

Second Question was : anyone else planning on heading in that direction around that time?

 

[Angele]

I ask because I was recently given the advice that sticking our nose out past Start Bay in an Easterly breeze is "always going to be bloody uncomfortable" - something i'd not considered at the time

Surely that advice is if the wind is WESTERLY.

Easter is very early in the season to have any realistic prospect of good, settled weather. So, my advice would be to avoid selling this to your friends as a trip to the Isles of Scilly, but rather as a long weekend cruise. Hence, instead of feeling compelled to go there (because that is what they expect), you can choose to go if the weather is suitable. If it isn't, you could still have a good time without going further west than the Fal/Helford.

 

[doug748]

I think Angele's advice is on the money.

Channel fishermen always feel an easterly is against God and Nature and complain about the sea state but with a running wind it's happy days. Slogging back into a fresh easterly would be a different matter.

 

[SimonFa]

I'm planning a trip from Dartmouth to the Isles of Scilly on 30th March in our Oceanis 45.
This is our first longer trip of this nature with us (myself and my partner) skippering and three friends.
Both of us are of reasonably low experience compared to some on here (both Dayskippers), reasonably risk averse but at the same time take a pragmatic view that if you prepare properly then there's a reasonable amount you can do at our experience level.

We're planning on heading off on the 30th, staying overnight at Falmouth and then getting up painfully early on the 31st so we can get to the Lizard for HW + 3 and then cut straight across to the Isles.
Broadly speaking (though it's still being worked out) we'll try and blast straight back to Dartmouth in one long stretch (depending on how much we use the engine) so we can get some more experience of night hours.

First Question was : Any advice in terms of weather/sea state conditions to keep an eye out for? (I ask because I was recently given the advice that sticking our nose out past Start Bay in an Easterly breeze is "always going to be bloody uncomfortable" - something i'd not considered at the time) and so i'd rather pick the brains of more experienced heads.

Second Question was : anyone else planning on heading in that direction around that time?

You don't say what your previous longest trip was and how experienced your friends are. If they aren't very experienced anything longer than a long day sail as their first serious voyage can be a big problem so +1 for Helford as a fall back or maybe even primary destination, especially if you/they haven't been there.

Given the time of year you should also consider what you will do if you get weather bound. You certainly don't want to put yourself in the position where you have to sail back for work or other engagements for you or the crew. That's been the cause of many a tragic accident from what I've read.

 

[dom]

Surely that advice is if the wind is WESTERLY.

100% agree with your advice, trip wld only be fun if moderate NW through E winds for the departure and W through NW for the return. Bit of a tall order really.

Curiously enough easterly 6-8s can be horribly messy. Past the Lizard is big swell country, which inevitably rolls in somewhere from the W. An easterly blow has plenty of fetch down the Channel, and the wind waves clonk (not sure of nautical word?) into the westerly setting swell. The seas become so steep that heading west one can drive straight into the next wave and submarine; while heading east one can go airborne thinking, OMG who took the back of the wave away :ambivalence:

 

[owen]

Never ever plan a trip to the scillies for a specific date. Plan to have days sails around plymouth salcombe fowey etc if the weather forecast is brilliant then change to the scillies.
I think the scillies is best enjoyed at leisure rather than a quick blast there and back.

 

[lpdsn]

Isle of Scilly are well worth a trip sometime. Best though when there's a quiet spell in the weather so you can explore the many anchorages.

I find sailing at Easter works best in terms of crew contentment if the crew are allowed ashore each evening to find a pub with a roaring fire.

 

[taikohax]

(sorry for the delay - just popped out)

Oddly the advice was against going out in an Easterly (which was the wind conditions this weekend just gone if i remember correctly) - as it was it was bloody cold and more than a bit blowy so i was happy to stay in and do some jobs.
In terms of the previous questions :

Experience : The longest was probably our Dayskipper which was a circuit of Anglesey in F5-7 but, i must hasten to add, this was with a much more experienced Skipper (our Instructor). The longest we've done whilst Skippering was moving the boat with the two of us - from the Hamble to Dartmouth (stopping off at Portland for a bit). Two of our friends are pretty familiar with the boat having gone out on weekends with us in the past (and they're pretty dependable folks) and then we've got one person who's only been on a flotilla to Greece.

In terms of weather, and I appreciate this is a 'how long is a piece of string' question - is sounds like that coastal area up around Helford etc come recommended if the weather isn't ideal for Scillys? Going a complete 180 (just thinking out loud), is Guernsey an alternative if Scilly isn't ideal (I suppose what i'm asking is whether Guernsey is an easier long trip or a recommended backup if the weather is borderline on the run up to the weekend).

Window of time - we've taken a few days on the backend of the bank holiday and if all else fails and it takes longer then we'll take as long as we need.

For me it's about finding that right balance of stretching ourselves without becoming a statistic if that makes sense.

 

[Iain C]

I went there a few years ago and it's a fantastic place to go. I'd echo what others have said above though...don't set your heart on it, and it is early in the year.

Pretty sure there's a decent bit about getting there in the Tom Cunliffe Channel Pilot book. I'd also buy Channel Havens by Ken Endean which has a lot of useful Scilly info. It's certainly more challenging navigation wise than many destinations, but there's so much written in the pilot books you should be happy if you've done your homework.

I think the main rule of the Scillies tends to be that if it's going to blow hard, scoot off back to the mainland, as there's not much shelter with wave refraction even on the leeward sides of the islands. Sounds like you have a fairly big fast seaworthy boat which helps too.

 

[jimi]

All depends on the weather, bashing westwards from Dartmouth against the prevailing wind is always going to be hard work. OTOH one of my most memorable sails was a long fine reach from the Lizard to St Mary's. However if it stays westerly it will be cracking sail back ,although you may find your crew opt for the ferry after a beating up on the way out ;-) Guernsey may be a better option wind wise as its likely to be a fine reach there and a beam reach back, you will have to get the tides right when arriving in Guernsey and your pilotage spot on although the Little Russel is bigger than it sounds. Personally I'd have plan A as dotting along the cost towards the Helford/Falmouth and making a dash for the Scillies if the weather window looks good. Its certainly generally easier sailing on the way back in the prevailing westerlies .Plan B Guernsey.

 

[lpdsn]

At least you should find you have lots of space if you make it to the Scillies. I've been there in late March before (on way to Spi Ouest) and I think we were the only yacht there.

 

[SimonFa]

IoS is over 100 miles which means you’ll end up doing an all nighter, which in decent weather is very enjoyable and you’ve enough crew to keep you or you wife company, however it does sound a stretch for your crew, especially the one who’s only done flotillas.

Guernesey is about 70 miles round to the SPP, but you may have to wait for the tidal gate or plan your start carefully. Your going to get about 13 hours of daylight for a roughly 15 hour journey. In your position I’d start in the early hours and get about 4 hours night sailing in waters you know then you arrive at an unknown location in daylight, however that may mean having to stay on the waiting pontoons.

The main problem with the channel crossing will be the big boats going up and down. You won’t have to go through the TSS but you will experience them as if you’re in a TSS, ie 2 distinct traffic lanes. There’s plenty of threads on here about dealing with the traffic. You will also need to do a CTS, check you don’t drift in to the TSS, to get the quickest crossing.

 

[longjohnsilver]

(sorry for the delay - just popped out)

Oddly the advice was against going out in an Easterly (which was the wind conditions this weekend just gone if i remember correctly) - as it was it was bloody cold and more than a bit blowy so i was happy to stay in and do some jobs.
In terms of the previous questions :

Experience : The longest was probably our Dayskipper which was a circuit of Anglesey in F5-7 but, i must hasten to add, this was with a much more experienced Skipper (our Instructor). The longest we've done whilst Skippering was moving the boat with the two of us - from the Hamble to Dartmouth (stopping off at Portland for a bit). Two of our friends are pretty familiar with the boat having gone out on weekends with us in the past (and they're pretty dependable folks) and then we've got one person who's only been on a flotilla to Greece.

In terms of weather, and I appreciate this is a 'how long is a piece of string' question - is sounds like that coastal area up around Helford etc come recommended if the weather isn't ideal for Scillys? Going a complete 180 (just thinking out loud), is Guernsey an alternative if Scilly isn't ideal (I suppose what i'm asking is whether Guernsey is an easier long trip or a recommended backup if the weather is borderline on the run up to the weekend).

Window of time - we've taken a few days on the backend of the bank holiday and if all else fails and it takes longer then we'll take as long as we need.

For me it's about finding that right balance of stretching ourselves without becoming a statistic if that makes sense.

Your boat isn't Muddy Paws by any chance?

We've been to Scilly most years in the past 10, but I'd say Easter is pretty early to be making your first trip there, although if you make it you'll have the place almost all to yourself. Guernsey is much easier, and if the weather turns you can leave your boat and come home and wait for the right conditions. You can't do that in Scilly, and in early April the chances of good conditions both ways are pretty remote. But who knows, it may be perfect!
There's certainly plenty to do and see around Plymouth, Falmouth and the Helford, and much easier to plan. Whatever you decide, have fun.

 

[LadyInBed]

Good advice from all the comments above.
Your assessment seems to be realistic for IoS / points West or Guernsey as a longish first passage.
Just make sure that you have adequate warm clothing, as night passages at the end of March, early April can be bloody cold!

 

[[70521]]

My boat will not be in the water, but it will be pretty chilly at the end of March. Longish nights and no real heat in the sun. I quite like that wee pub at Dittisham around that time of year.

 

[Rosa]

Some of the coldest sailing I've ever done has been in March/April.

About five years ago in mid April we moved the boat from Dartmouth to her new berth in Falmouth. She was launched from Galmpton and we stayed overnight on a mooring waiting for a favourable tide. Set out next morning for Salcombe but turned back after a couple of hours as we were beating, making little progress and freezing. Back to a mooring and wondering if it was too early to move the boat.

Set out for Salcombe next morning--more favourable wind to start with but endured very heavy hail for about ten minutes. Kept going and Start Point was OK but ended up motor sailing to get past Prawle Point and into Salcombe.

Think we were the only boat in Salcombe! Great forecast for next day so sailed to Plymouth and anchored at Cawsand/Kingsand. Then on to Falmouth the next day, arriving in torrential rain.

Our boat is smaller than yours, there were only two of us, who know the boat very well, and no time deadlines. An "easy" trip which we'd made a few times before turned out to be much harder than anticipated.

I've been to the Scillies a few times but wouldn't risk it at that time of the year (and Easter is early this year). Instead I'd potter about coast hopping and go with the prevailing winds.

 

[laika]

We're planning on heading off on the 30th, staying overnight at Falmouth and then getting up painfully early on the 31st so we can get to the Lizard for HW + 3 and then cut straight across to the Isles.

Dartmouth to Falmouth is a bit of a hike and if you just want to sleep, get up and go might anchoring at the entrance to the Helford or picking up a buoy further in save time and effort? (side note...WTF? buoys on the Helford more expensive than the Beaulieu now? That's gone up a heck of a lot in 5 years!)

If you haven't done it already calculate a course to steer from the lizard on your chosen day then compare with a wind rose for the area and consider the likelihood of being able to "cut straight across". After the last time I supported the Helford economy for 5 days before giving up the wait I resolved that if I ever tried to go to the Isles of Scilly again it would be from L'Aber Wrac'h.

You're more likely to be able sail your ideal course to/from Alderney or Guernsey on any given day and you can go direct from Dartmouth without a long slog to your jumping off point. That would probably be my first choice for a trip if constrained by limited time as trips with friends usually are.

 

[NealB]

I'd endorse the advice to not have your heart set on Scilly: if the weather's right, take advantage, if not, stay clear.

We've successfully sneaked out there about half a dozen times now, and failed on several more occasions when it was our declared plan.

Don't forget Newlyn as a possible passage port.

 

[dom]

Don't forget Newlyn as a possible passage port.

As a matter of interest, am I right in thinking that diesel is only available by truck and if so, what grades are typically sold?

 

[taikohax]

Sincere thanks for all the advice and suggestions folks.

My takeaway has been :
- Likely the wrong time of year to go for dependable weather
- If the weather pans out, great, go for it (but be prepared to seek shelter if things change)
- The South Coast along there still remains a viable backup, as does Guernsey (again weather dependent)
- Helford stands for “Hella expensive Ford”
- It’ll be cold (we’ve been sailing throughout winter so we’re sadly used to it by now)

longjohnsilver - yep, we’re “Soggy Paws”, i can’t quite tell from the Avatar, are you the boat moored up next to us?