Is white diesel better than red?

[snowleopard]

We are sitting in Scheveningen waiting for a new set of injectors for the engine (a Yanmar Turbo 4JH3). We have found some diesel bug in the filters. The engineer says we ought to use white diesel instead of red. Can there be anything in what he says?

 

[activesail]

Red diesel is dyed so that the customs and excise can identify if people are using it illegally.

There is no difference, diesel is diesel.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Standby...

 

[sailorman]

We are sitting in Scheveningen waiting for a new set of injectors for the engine (a Yanmar Turbo 4JH3). We have found some diesel bug in the filters. The engineer says we ought to use white diesel instead of red. Can there be anything in what he says?

search "Refuller" for the definitive answer
PS wot anchor do you use

 

[snowleopard]

Red diesel is dyed so that the customs and excise can identify if people are using it illegally.

There is no difference, diesel is diesel.

There are significant differences, e.g. red has a minimum Cetane rating of 45 while white is min 51. Also white is generally much lower sulphur. In other words they are different fuels.

My question is - could use of red result in damage to injectors?

 

[sailorman]

There are significant differences, e.g. red has a minimum Cetane rating of 45 while white is min 51. Also white is generally much lower sulphur. In other words they are different fuels.

My question is - could use of red result in damage to injectors?

almost all site Plant in the UK has run on Red since Nelson was a Boy.
Normally flat-out very little in the way of servicing

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There are significant differences, e.g. red has a minimum Cetane rating of 45 while white is min 51. Also white is generally much lower sulphur. In other words they are different fuels.

My question is - could use of red result in damage to injectors?

I don't think the use of red is likely to result in damage I run lots of large plant on red without injector problems. My reason for using white is that it does not sit around in tanks at Tescos accumalating water, which is where I believe my "bug" problems originated even with my professional use we find significant amounts of water both in the main tanks and the plant agglomerators which are drained regularly. When I used red in the boat there was allways some water in the tank and agglomerator since using white I don't seem to get water from either the tank drain or agglomerator. However as said earlier it will not cause injector damage water will though. I suspect your Dutch engineer was just expressing the opinon that white is better because that is what is sold there.

 

[Sultans_Kapitein]

We are sitting in Scheveningen waiting for a new set of injectors for the engine (a Yanmar Turbo 4JH3). We have found some diesel bug in the filters. The engineer says we ought to use white diesel instead of red. Can there be anything in what he says?

It appears, (from what I read on here !) that Eberspacher heating systems give significantly fewer problems if run on white diesel rather than red. But I have also read the same thing about parafin, so I dont know what that tells us
But my landlord runs all of his tractors, combines etc on red diesel and he is very 'careful' with his equipment, as he says 'you have to look after stuff, money does not grow on trees'

Mal

 

[jjulysses]

We are sitting in Scheveningen waiting for a new set of injectors for the engine (a Yanmar Turbo 4JH3). We have found some diesel bug in the filters. The engineer says we ought to use white diesel instead of red. Can there be anything in what he says?

Yes.
White diesel keeps you out of jail

 

[jjulysses]

There are significant differences, e.g. red has a minimum Cetane rating of 45 while white is min 51. Also white is generally much lower sulphur. In other words they are different fuels.

My question is - could use of red result in damage to injectors?

Lower sulphur:
This is true for the U.S.A.

 

[TrueBlue]

I'm going out on a limb here, as I like to be certain before making a comment. Having been on the fringes of the oil industry at some time in my working life, I put the following suggestion:-

Certainly in the UK, the only difference is the colour, and how it is stored.
If the stuff turns over quickly and the tankage is if the same quality as petrol for consumer use, then bugs and water probably don't happen.

On the mainland at least all Diesel is ULSD, 'cos it's not practical to manufacture and ship two grades of fuel.

I can't comment on stuff purchased abroad, or purchased where local supplies are in very large tanks which may have been imported and shipped by lighter.

Another possibility in areas where the use of MGO and kerosene are high there is a possibility of Red being a regrade from ullage in another fuel tank, and if regraded it may contain water...

 

[Cantata]

....and of course there is an opinion that was expressed by the Tech committee of the CA that white in a boat's tank will be more prone to accumulating water while it's sitting in there for weeks/months, as a result of the bio content....

 

[AndyAndKatie]

I'm going out on a limb here, as I like to be certain before making a comment. Having been on the fringes of the oil industry at some time in my working life, I put the following suggestion:-

Certainly in the UK, the only difference is the colour, and how it is stored.
If the stuff turns over quickly and the tankage is if the same quality as petrol for consumer use, then bugs and water probably don't happen.

On the mainland at least all Diesel is ULSD, 'cos it's not practical to manufacture and ship two grades of fuel.

I can't comment on stuff purchased abroad, or purchased where local supplies are in very large tanks which may have been imported and shipped by lighter.

Another possibility in areas where the use of MGO and kerosene are high there is a possibility of Red being a regrade from ullage in another fuel tank, and if regraded it may contain water...

Sorry to drag this subject up again, but Ive got a question. When going abroad, especially to Belgium or Holland, Its just plain easier to fill up with white as red in now illegal.

So my question is, can white and red be mixed??, or does the red have to be drained first before filling up with red..

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Where is Refueller when you need him!!
This topic was covered previously and in my experience....British red, bottom of the barrel and smokey. Continental white, proper fuel non-smokey.

 

[shmoo]

We don't use much fuel and it is just easier to get a couple of cans from the supermarket on the way to the boat. Non-scientific, anecdotal, eyeball assessment is that white seems to smoke less, but if someone told me that was impossible because red and white are the same apart from dye, I wouldn't really have grounds to argue.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Sorry to drag this subject up again, but Ive got a question. When going abroad, especially to Belgium or Holland, Its just plain easier to fill up with white as red in now illegal.

So my question is, can white and red be mixed??, or does the red have to be drained first before filling up with red..

Yes you can mix red and white BUT it will look red it takes quiet a while for the red dye to dissapear. I cleaned and flushed my tanks and used white which was OK but if mixing it will still look red. The reason I choose white is that I reasoned by buying in a supermarket it would have greater turn over and be cleaner, so far so good. My tank has a long filler hose and the red in marinas does not contain the anti foaming additive so it is a pain in the ar*e to fill up and takes ages so another reason to use cans to top up.

 

[Latestarter1]

There are significant differences, e.g. red has a minimum Cetane rating of 45 while white is min 51. Also white is generally much lower sulphur. In other words they are different fuels.

My question is - could use of red result in damage to injectors?

Simple answer is no.

You are on the wrong track,chasing the wrong cause of your ills.

#1 Your so called 'engineer' we had a better term... 'yard monkeys' which summed up these guys who give out free un-data based and generally worthless advice to owners.

#2 I do not even propose to even comment on the red Vs white debate because it ain't the issue.

Yanmar 4JH is a rock solid little motor. Denso pump will tolerate small amount of water and crud, Denso injectors will not, takes the tips out, which are expensive.

Over 50% of fuel systems I have looked at 'are not fit for purpose' 40% I would class as adequate, only the remainder give me a warm and comfortable (super safe) feeling.

Unless you go back to basics, fit a proper multi stage fuel filteration system you can be sure of one thing, whatever colour of fuel you use injectors WILL likely fail again.

Add the practice of leaving tanks partially empty and not pressed up together with a poor fuel system set up just speeds up the process. You only have to look at the queue at the fuel pontoon on a Sunday morning as evidence of tanks left partially empty.

 

[Marsupial]

We are sitting in Scheveningen waiting for a new set of injectors for the engine (a Yanmar Turbo 4JH3). We have found some diesel bug in the filters. The engineer says we ought to use white diesel instead of red. Can there be anything in what he says?

My contribution is that I left the UK in April with full tanks of RED, filled with Yellow in Portugal and noticed a "difference" (positive) in the running of the engine, filled with GREEN in Gibraltar and the engine continued to run smoother and "happier", filled with WHITE in Malta (on reflection I think it was 28 second Heating oil it was thinner than the Green or Yellow) and the engine sounds like it did in the UK, i.e. it works but . . , so as far as I am concerned there is something in what he says.

 

[Latestarter1]

My contribution is that I left the UK in April with full tanks of RED, filled with Yellow in Portugal and noticed a "difference" (positive) in the running of the engine, filled with GREEN in Gibraltar and the engine continued to run smoother and "happier", filled with WHITE in Malta (on reflection I think it was 28 second Heating oil it was thinner than the Green or Yellow) and the engine sounds like it did in the UK, i.e. it works but . . , so as far as I am concerned there is something in what he says.

How an engine 'sounds' is absolutly no pointer to its health and pretty much irrelavant to the original question.

Diesel sound can be incredibly subjective. Personally I love to hear an engine with a positive diesel crack saying 'please put give me some work' as opposed to the muted pussy cat combustion sound you prefer.

LAT (Local Ambient Temperature) as well a different fuels can impact on combustion noise. Electronic engines with 3D timing tables have a real crack at low LAT's when they are on the advanced curve.

As to putting 28 second oil in a diesel engine it is courting disaster, surely you could smell kero? Malta used to source oil from Lybia which I think is a light crude, similar to North Sea oil. I would think it was more likely to be a high sulphur 35 second oil.

 

[Marsupial]

Mr Latestarter no awake yet lights on no-one home,

"How an engine 'sounds' is absolutly no pointer to its health and pretty much irrelavant to the original question."

I ve heard so cr p but this beats the lot, so an engine that rattles like a bucket full of scrap iron has nothing wrong with it - interesting, backfies and misses due to contaminate/poor fuel are not an indication of fuel quality - strange world you live in.


"LAT (Local Ambient Temperature) as well a different fuels can impact on combustion noise. Electronic engines with 3D timing tables have a real crack at low LAT's when they are on the advanced curve."

good I'll remember that when I get an electronic engine in the mean time lets talk about how my engine changed its characteristics as different fuels were used.

"As to putting 28 second oil in a diesel engine it is courting disaster, surely you could smell kero? Malta used to source oil from Lybia which I think is a light crude, similar to North Sea oil. I would think it was more likely to be a high sulphur 35 second oil."

why should I? you dont know the circumstances of the refuel - or were you the guy who refueled it? first its my hearing now its my sense of smell can you read minds over the internet? I do indeed HOPE it was 35second oil but it was thinner than I was expecting when we spilled a bit topping up from cans some days later at sea. Oh and by the way 28 second oil will only reduce power output unless you need all the power no harm will be done to a good engine in short durations.


so my many years making designing and tuning and repairing diesels is irrelavent then - shame I thought I knew a bit about them


"Diesel sound can be incredibly subjective. Personally I love to hear an engine with a positive diesel crack saying 'please put give me some work' as opposed to the


muted pussy cat combustion sound you prefer"

what are you on about? PREFER?

I do know a healthy diesel engine when I hear one! and a crack isnt it it usually means a timing/injector issue. But I can tell you that MY engine developed more power at lower thottle (rack) settings with yellow and green diesel and it sounded different (more powerful?) than it did with with red or white which indicates to me that the fuel had more calories in it but what the hell do I know . . were you a stowaway on my boat were you there? how do you know what combustion sound I prefer? I only reported what I heard.

Oh and the LAT was similar withing a few degrees fir the whole trip, we even had the webasto on crossing the Ionian sea, not as cold as biscay but pretty close.

The OP Snowlepoard was asking about differences in diesel, my recent experience is relevant I think, I reported a vast difference in the way MY engine behaved with different fuels. AND its the first time in 7 years the engine has had anything other than RED in it.