Is this the right sort of oil?

[lw395]

It might meet API CC the day you buy it, but how good is it at the end of the season?
Don't forget that CD oil meets and surpasses everyrequirement of CC, which is why CC is obsolete.
It's not as if Halfrauds or Bodge'n'Quit are cheap places to buy oil.

 

[Croftie]

If Halfords are selling oil specified as API CC that is actually not suitable for diesels then they are guilty of misrepresentation. The API CC spec should be removed from the labelling.

Probably down to product liability. It may well be suitable for older diesel engines but not for a modern car. To stop Joe Blogs putting it in his 2014 BMW just because its cheap and says suitable for diesels then trying to sue when/if problems arise and BMW refuse a warranty claim.

 

[theoldsalt]

Probably down to product liability. It may well be suitable for older diesel engines but not for a modern car. To stop Joe Blogs putting it in his 2014 BMW just because its cheap and says suitable for diesels then trying to sue when/if problems arise and BMW refuse a warranty claim.

Thanks Croftie. I must admit I had not thought of that - mind stuck in marine mode forgetting car applications.

However I suppose they could also say not suitable for petrol engines by the same logic.

 

[lw395]

Probably down to product liability. It may well be suitable for older diesel engines but not for a modern car. To stop Joe Blogs putting it in his 2014 BMW just because its cheap and says suitable for diesels then trying to sue when/if problems arise and BMW refuse a warranty claim.

It might just be that it passes the limited range of tests implied by CC spec, but it's completely **** at looking after your diesel engine?

 

[theoldsalt]

.......... but it's completely **** at looking after your diesel engine?

Based on what knowledge and/or experience. ? If you have a personal opinion please justify it. Don't just trash a product for no good reason.
I have been using Carlube Daytona oil for 10 years without any problems. I have no experience of the Halfords product so remain open minded.

 

[lw395]

For a start, if it passed the more stringent CD spec, they would say so.
AIUI, everything that passes the CD spec would automatically pass CC.
The fact that they say it's not suitable for diesel engines speaks for itself.
It's delusional to interpret that as 'this is really great for your diesel engine but elf and safety/the EU/the daily mail won't let us tell you that.'

 

[JerryHawkins]

Does your Thorneycroft not have a full flow oil filter? If so, you might do better with a detergent 20w50?
AIUI, it is not a good idea to switch randomly between detergent and non-detergent oils.

Yes - it's a full-flow filter (std cartridge type replaced by more convenient spin-on). Last couple of changes, I used Exol Classic 20w50 (API SE/CC, Mil-l-46152b, US Mil-l-2104b). The Golden film is API SF/CC, mil-l-2104b. Both low detergent I think. Used these since rebuild (new liners/rings/main bearings). What would you suggest instead for this age engine?

 

[lw395]

Personally, I use fully synthetic in any engine I regard as 'precious metal' and semi synth in others.
However I'm aware that thoughts differ.
If you think this thread is opinionated have a look at a US motorbike forum or two on the subject!
I would suggest asking a knowledgeable oil retailer what your options are.
A lot depends on your use pattern and expectations. If you have a car where the body will rust out before the engine wears much, you don't need good oil. If the engine is likely to wear out in your ownership, better oil will pay for itself.
But I would sick to trusted brands like Golden Film, even if you choose the lower spec route.
But this is just a personal opinion.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Personally, I use fully synthetic in any engine I regard as 'precious metal' and semi synth in others.
....

At the risk of plugging Cox again...

"Subsequent discussions with both Yanmar technical and the Shell oil laboratories suggested that we had unwittingly committed two sins, the major one being that we had followed the normal idea of being kind to our engine by giving it good oil - a semi synthetic. Yanmar insisted that putting a higher grade modern oil in an old design engine was asking for trouble. I was sceptical so I spoke independently to Shell laboratories and to my surprise they said the same thing. They went so far as to say that we should never use synthetics in old design engines since there were components in the oil that could cause accelerated wear."

ref: http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Oilforyachtengines.aspx

 

[lw395]

At the risk of plugging Cox again...

"Subsequent discussions with both Yanmar technical and the Shell oil laboratories suggested that we had unwittingly committed two sins, the major one being that we had followed the normal idea of being kind to our engine by giving it good oil - a semi synthetic. Yanmar insisted that putting a higher grade modern oil in an old design engine was asking for trouble. I was sceptical so I spoke independently to Shell laboratories and to my surprise they said the same thing. They went so far as to say that we should never use synthetics in old design engines since there were components in the oil that could cause accelerated wear."

ref: http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Oilforyachtengines.aspx

A much repeated opinion which is at odds with a large body of opinion from other 'experts'.
You pays yer money, makes your choice!

The single case on Mr Cox's website has been dismissed by others as probably a faulty engine not putting any oil on the bore.
It would have been convenient for the importer to blame the user.
Presumably, failure of the oil would have affected all of the bores the same?
But Yanmar want to sell their own brand oil of course.
They are not telling you to shop at woolworths or the pound shop.

You don't know what additives are in no-brand oil, so if you prefer to stick to cc, there is a good case for choosing a known brand, whereas own-brand stuff might be different batch to batch.
Even buying Yanmar or Mercury or... oil, it may come from a different supplier this month, and has probably been re-spec'd for the current or recent production of their engines.

Another view for which I have a certain amount of respect is that the best thing you can do is change the oil more often.

 

[lw395]

Interestingly, the oil Yanmar now sell for the GM series of engines is API CI-4.

•Specifically formulated for Yanmar Marine Diesel Engines


•Will provide superior engine protection for all diesel engines that require 15W40 engine oil


Specification:

SAE 15W40

API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/SL

ACEA E7-04/E5-02/E3-96/A3-02/B3-98

 

[vyv_cox]

API CI-4 is an interesting oil. It is mineral, has one of the lowest TBNs available and seems to be used in a wide variety of automotive types. Because it contains modern VI improvers it probably would burn less than an older spec oil. I suspect it might well be good for older engines except that it could well be considerably more expensive. I use API CC 20w-50 from Morris in my BMC diesel, which takes a lot and burns a lot. I can still buy API CD in Greece, which I use in my Yanmar GM.

 

[RichardS]

A much repeated opinion which is at odds with a large body of opinion from other 'experts'.
You pays yer money, makes your choice!

The single case on Mr Cox's website has been dismissed by others as probably a faulty engine not putting any oil on the bore.
It would have been convenient for the importer to blame the user.
Presumably, failure of the oil would have affected all of the bores the same?
But Yanmar want to sell their own brand oil of course.
They are not telling you to shop at woolworths or the pound shop.

You don't know what additives are in no-brand oil, so if you prefer to stick to cc, there is a good case for choosing a known brand, whereas own-brand stuff might be different batch to batch.
Even buying Yanmar or Mercury or... oil, it may come from a different supplier this month, and has probably been re-spec'd for the current or recent production of their engines.

Another view for which I have a certain amount of respect is that the best thing you can do is change the oil more often.

Are you able to get fully synthetic oil at higher 15W-40 type viscosities? I've stuck with semi-synthetic for the boat engines as I can easily buy that at higher viscosity and I'm loath to drop down to 0W or 5W for a YM Yanmar which is specified 15W-40 although I do use thin synthetics in all our cars and bikes.

My view is slightly different to yours in that I regard yacht auxiliary engines as very low stress compared with my high-performance bikes and cars and certainly do not intend to follow manufacturers "once a year" recommendation for boats as I most certainly would never follow that for cars where I have gone up to 5 or 6 years between oil changes with normal filter changes.

Richard

 

[fergycool]

It's delusional to interpret that as 'this is really great for your diesel engine but elf and safety/the EU/the daily mail won't let us tell you that.'

Brilliant! Best quote I've read today.

... And to keep it relevant I use Fleetmaster 15w40 in my 1961 Perkins 4.270. Fairly cheap considering it's a 9litre sump! It has a modern spin on filter conversion.

 

[lw395]

Are you able to get fully synthetic oil at higher 15W-40 type viscosities? I've stuck with semi-synthetic for the boat engines as I can easily buy that at higher viscosity and I'm loath to drop down to 0W or 5W for a YM Yanmar which is specified 15W-40 although I do use thin synthetics in all our cars and bikes.

My view is slightly different to yours in that I regard yacht auxiliary engines as very low stress compared with my high-performance bikes and cars and certainly do not intend to follow manufacturers "once a year" recommendation for boats as I most certainly would never follow that for cars where I have gone up to 5 or 6 years between oil changes with normal filter changes.

Richard

5w40 will have similar viscosity when hot to 15w40.
I say similar, because 'hot' is not an exact figure, your yacht diesel may run lower oil temperatures than a car.
But you can get 10w60 synthetic if you want a high hot viscosity. Popular for some V twin bikes.
A lower cold viscosity is generally good, it means the oil gets to the moving bits quicker on start up. It can be bad if it means more cold oil drains out of the seals while it's parked.....

One of the tests where synths often do very well relates to how much oil remains on the working surfaces after x hours of draining. That means more lubrication on that friday night start up when the boats been left since Sunday. Cars generally get used most days so don't suffer the same.

When you say 'a yacht auxiliary is low stress' that is certainly true in many senses, but my highly stressed bike does not ignite its fuel with a bang like a diesel. So which puts more stress on the oil in the mains etc?
Various wearing bits like tappets, rockers, are probably much the same, but our boat engines do less hours. My car engine cruises at lower rpm though.
With a bike, I suspect piston speed is the biggest stress factor for the oil? Not that mine sees its full 10,000 rpm or whatever all that often!

I suspect the key thing may not be the nominal viscosity, but the anti-wear and anti-corrosion additives, detergents etc.
AIUI, seriously vintage engines use different bearing metals. Opinions seem to differ at where to draw the line on this, but if you have pre-war car you definitely need to think about it.
Gods knows what is in pound shop or supermarket own-brand oil. I'd only use that on some of the cars I used to have, where the name of the game was topping up oil in a worn out engine, knowing the car would be scrap in a year or so anyway.